To think it’s wrong of this man to film a child?

[MrsA2015]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5391341/Passenger-films-toddlers-eight-hour-tantrum-flight.html

I can see why he filmed it but for it to be put on the net is too far! I feel quite sorry for the mother she must have felt mortified

That won't be a typo. 'it' has already been used by a poster on this thread so this will be the same poster or another one being an arse.

‘It’?! That must be a troll comment. Has to be. Jesus.

Moonkins, yes passengers have been taken off flights for less before. However then you’ll find the captain has been hounded, all the pitchforks have come out and it’s hit the press in a very bad way.

No one has a right to fly, the captains decision is final. If anyone can’t fly safely or is a possible risk to the other passengers then the captain has the absolute right to remove that person from the plane. I would never have taken my children flying at that age. I’d fully have expected to be kicked off.

Considering watching how he was before take off I’m surprised they did take off. If I were a passenger I’d complain they did. Maybe they are so scared stiff nowadays anytime the A word or disability is mentioned people are quick to ‘talk about their rights’ usually at the expense of other people. You only have to see the massive reactions previous issues have caused when the captain has made families leave the flight.

I have been there, I have had to plan every day of my adult life near enough looking after disabled children. Sometimes we can’t do things, we can’t do those things because I know it wouldn’t be possible/they wouldn’t cope/it wouldn’t be safe. My ‘rights’ to do whatever because they are disabled doesn’t over ride that.

My son having been in special schooling all his life, is now a very competent academic and very socially able. He has the grades and would like to become a pilot in the military, he will never do it because he has an ASC diagnosis. He can’t participate in flying activities without being signed off by a Dr. He is a cadet. That’s life and it’s perfectly legal as well. His safety and that of everyone must be considered. He is an adult now, it is no good people instilling in their children that ‘their right’ to do something comes before anything. It doesn’t work like that when they get older. You can’t always do what you want no matter what and I’ve spent 16 years adapting to what the children need. Not

screaming ‘it’s my right’ if I can’t do something.

My youngest is following that path and only now could I take him on an aeroplane.

I disagree. I have an older disabled child and I think his rights are very important. There is a section of society who would treat him appallingly if I didn't state and defend his rights - which is something he will never be able to do himself.

Rights are very important, you’re teaching me to suck eggs with all due respect. It’s been my life’s work. However everyone else has rights too. Fought more fights than probably many on here. One does not over ride the many.

That means that in this world there will be things our children can’t do. Their rights don’t over ride the many. Not being able to join the military is just one example. For my almost adult son to go flying with the cadets he needs to be authorised by a DR as fit to fly, otherwise he can’t go.

Rights are very important but so many people now just see ‘their rights’ as paramount and screw safety and every one else’s. ‘But my rights’....

The facts are with flying, a captain has the absolute right to remove someone who is disruptive to a flight and who endangers others. This child was like this and climbing all over the place before take off. I as a passenger would be asking why they felt it was fair or safe on anyone to take off in that scenario. However we all know it would’ve been over the Sun news paper within the week and people screaming about ‘their rights’. Screw everyone else or safety.

"That means that in this world there will be things our children can’t do."

Well you are certainly teaching me to suck eggs with that one.
My child isn't even aware he has any rights and never will. That is why rights are important and I why I disagree with anyone talking about too many rights.

@spikeyball the problem is that rights conflict. So here, the child’s right to fly conflicts with the passengers’ right not to be subjected to disruption and excessive noise and potential endangerment of the flight.

So no one is saying rights aren’t important, but talking about rights doesn’t actually solve anything here as you still have to decide how to prioritise one set of ‘rights’ over another.

Well see I have another child who won’t be independent. Quick to try and play Sen bingo on here aren’t we? Just because I have several children with medical needs and disabilities AND understand other people have rights, it seems to be confusing for some. I am a strong advocate of rights. I’m also realistic and not selfish.

I will fight to the bitter end to defend my children’s rights. I’m not pig headed enough to force them into a situation I know they wouldn’t cope with because it’s their right. I also know that other people have rights too. Like the captain would’ve been well within his rights to remove that family from the plane for the safety of the other passengers.

Let’s say there were several people on that plane and some had disabilities or hearing issues which could be a made a lot worse by that behaviour, or someone was hurt. Who’s rights come first? Is it like bingo?

I will defend SEN rights to the death however I’m also a person who realises other people have rights too and we can’t always have everything we want. It is called thinking of others.

Mctufty I'm not saying that this child or indeed anyone has a right to fly. If it is unsafe ( which will be the airlines decision) then it is unsafe.
Masterbuilders you are the one making out you know more about it than anyone else. I disagree with you which I've every right to.

Likewise. I am a strong advocate of rights, I don’t believe one persons are more important than another’s. I’ve seen attitudes change over the last 15/16 years. IME people have actually become less tolerant even though more awareness is out there, because people don’t look at the bigger picture. I don’t want that for my children.

That's disgraceful. Every one of those passengers should be given a refund. That really isn't acceptable. When it became clear before take off that the kid was that distressed, they should have taken him off the plane and the mother made other arrangements, maybe to travel by boat, rather than inflict all that on the kid and every other passenger.

A refund? Why? The purpose of mass transit isn't to have a lovely relaxing time it's to get from A to B quickly and safely. And that end was achieved. If I was running the airline I'd have offered the passengers some sort of voucher for future flights in order to keep their business but that would be a goodwill gesture not any sort of right.

As for get a boat, it's not the first half of 20th century. Transatlantic passenger shipping is not really a thing any more. There is the Queen Mary 2, which is an incredibly expensive liner aimed at pleasure cruisers who want to cross the Atlantic by sea as a period experience rather than people who want to get from A to B. And securing a passenger spot on a freighter which takes 1 to 2 weeks, costs thousands for 2 people and would almost certainly not be insured to carry a toddler. If you were very lucky, you might get a spot on a repositioning cruise but you'd be tied to very specific, very limited dates and destinations.

Flying is the only option and if this family needed to get to the US from Germany, maybe because it was the return journey. Or for medical treatment, they had to fly no matter how utterly unpleasant an experience it would have been for everyone involved. There is literally no other option.

Masterbuilders

I could have written your post. DS has HFA is also in cadets, but he will never be able to join the military, even though that is the one thing he desires to do. I accept this, as does he- that is just how it goes. But for his label, he would (in my opinion anyway) have been an exemplary pilot. But in life, while nobody should be discriminated against unnecessarily, you do accept the limitations which certain conditions entail.
And this distressed and uncontrollably screaming child should not have been flying.

DS has a registered disability. One of the more negative aspects is sensory overload, he finds shouting and raised voices very stressful, and sustained loud noise is very painful. Had he been on that flight, he would have been utterly traumatised and shaking, and having anxiety attacks within 30minutes. I can't even imagine what state he'd be in after 8 hours of screaming. Where are his rights?

The eye rollers and lemon suckers don’t suddenly become kind and misty eyed if you give what they are seeing a name. They just say something like ‘well he shouldn’t be doing that’ or glare harder.

Often but not always...I did get an apology a few weeks ago.

No-one was unsafe though masterbuilders. He wasn’t screaming loud enough to crack the plane.

My son’s behaviour would be classed as dangerous now he’s adult sized so the risk of him being removed is quite high. Hence we wouldn’t travel by plane unless there was no other choice. At that age we didn’t travel by plane but he wouldt have been unsafe although he may have been loud so we would have had a lower bar for travel.

We’ve had an apology once in 18 years hanging

Rights are incredibly important when you are severely disabled. My son’s rights to a family life are being pretty much trashed at the moment but that’s a different thread.

They’re never really seen as quite human enough for human rights - the severely disabled

@Devilishpyjamas he was unsafe to himself though. Even if you only look at it with compassion and empathy for the parent and child, the kid running around the isle and climbing on top of seats just wasn't safe. And that's without adding the possibility of someone having hot drinks,luggage compartments not shut properly etc.

Can I just ask, for my benefit and perhaps for the benefit of others, if a child is likely to be this distressed (obviously we don't know if the mother knew in advance in this case) would people consider some sort of medication to calm them down. I'm not suggesting knock out drops or something but something to relieve the stress and agitation. One of my kids suffered from travel sickness and was also a nervous flyer, one of the advantages of his travel sickness medication was it calmed him down and on a long flight he would sleep most of the way so I just wondered if there is something similar that could be used.

I don't know if this is considered unacceptable or indeed detrimental for certain conditions but I just wondered if it would make it easier for the child, his mother and other passengers. I can understand if someone said drugging a child for the convenience of others is unacceptable but in this case it would surely help the child as well?

Some of you experienced mums could maybe enlighten us?

Yes and no grannytomine. You can try but I remember the Hospital trying to knock my son out with a massive lorazepam dose and it did nothing - until he got home and the. Slept for hours. Same when they tried to give him an eeg using melatonin. He was most definitely having none of sleeping (until he got home). Phenergen usually works very well to calm him - but I doubt it would do anything if he was properly distressed if a benzo doesn’t touch the sides. The only combo I know will knock him out is midazolam/ketamine and that’s not something you would use outside a hospital!

We saw 3 minutes rebel. I’m pretty sure the plane would not have taken off if he was thought to be a danger - and once up in the air you have to go with it.

Devilishpyjamas, thank you for explaining. That must make it difficult and makes it easier to understand. For someone on the outside it can sound like an ideal solution until some kind soul explains. I must confess if I had been on the plane I would probably have been thinking why didn't she have something to calm him, I'll know better if I'm ever in that position.

If my autistic child had been on the flight that racket would have distressed him terribly. He’d have been beside himself but he still wouldn’t have caused that commotion.

That child should have been sedated.

I just wanted to add that a child behaving like this isn't always SNs and it isn't fair to SN children to say it is. I have a relative whose child was very like this, thought the world revolved round him and he would scream for hours and his mother always gave in. School was a terrible shock but it was amazing how quickly he realised he couldn't get away with this behaviour and his mother also realised that life could be different and started to expect better behaviour. He's a lovely adult now.

So while we should make allowances sometimes the allowances are for a child who just hasn't be taught that this isn't acceptable rather than for a child with SN.

MySide... Look out! Hope you have a sofa to hide behind 🍿

A “caring, intelligent, thoughtful mother” wouldn’t have put her child and several hundred passengers through that ordeal.

Why oh why would a mother deem it “ok” to make the informed decision to piss everyone off??

Hope she turns up on “This Morning” soon so we can grasp an idea of her thought process...

Most ‘bratty kids’ being bratty would be using words. I didn’t hear that child use a single word. Not even ‘no’. Admittedly I skimmed through but screaming with no words should give observers a bit of a heads up (I know from personal experience that many are too stupid to notice when a teen isn’t using words so at that age there’s no chance, but hey ho).