What's with all these transgender threads?!

[pancakequeenisheretosaveyou]

No less than 7 on my active threads?? Is it just me who in real life hasn't encountered any transgender people?? And coming from the professional background that I'm in, I see a pretty varied side of life

Am I missing out on something here??

I don't get it really. It seems to me that transgender and feminism go hand in hand. Both groups want to break gender stereotypes- allowing people to wear what they like, play with what they like, do whatever jobs they want

The trouble is that this is exactly the opposite of what trans-activists say. According to them, women have pink brains, men have blue brains and - if a boy likes wearing dresses or pink, this means he is literally a girl. The transgender movement relies on enforcing rigid gender stereotypes.

Both groups want to break gender stereotypes- allowing people to wear what they like, play with what they like, do whatever jobs they want.

Er no, the trans agenda sticks very firmly to gender stereotypes. Why else do you think six year old boys who play with dolls and wear dresses think they're actually girls?

Mumsnet is a really weird echo chamber for transphobia. I called a friend recently who walks in more academic feminist circles than I do (I am definitely a feminist, I’m just not so much involved in the academic or activist side of things at this stage of my life) and asked her what her experiences were of TERF and she was genuinely perplexed as to how commonly I was coming across it!

There are indeed many trans threads, but when I see something discusses with this intensity it makes me want to know what it is all about, not to shut it out.

Also ask yourselves, how many women you know who routinely go round telling other women to Die In A Fire; or that their "musty cunts" should be raped by someone else's female penis?

All for having an opinion? Do you know any woman who thinks rape threats are ever appropriate? Does it sound like a person you want around you and your loved ones?

People shouldn't want or have to change their sex to fit with gender stereotypes.
Exactly.

Which is why transactivist ideology is deeply conservative with regards to sex and gender. It maintains the binary of gender to such an extent that a change of sex is required to be who you want to be.

The gender-critical feminist stance is so much more tolerant. It's "you don't need to change sex to be who you want".

Feminists and right-wingers are strange bedfellows but sometimes it happens!

There are indeed many trans threads, but when I see something discusses with this intensity it makes me want to know what it is all about, not to shut it out.

This.** If there is a lot of talking going on, how can anyone not be curious why?

It isn’t transphobic to question the implications of self ID.

Some will tell you it is and that you cannot question. This is common sense not blindly agree to demands to a very small minority.

Some will be absolutely genuine - but the risk is that some will have motives that will hurt women. We cant ignore that.

Laws protect people on the basis of gender, race, sexual orientation - so what are they fighting for?

In their new world men who are physically men (no surgery, no drugs, no therapy, no change really then) can say that they are (really are) a woman.

Think about what this means for women - vulnerable women. Rape victim needing a female Doctor to do an internal examination - a doctor turns up who looks like a man, he might even be Dr (‘suck my lady cock’) Danielle, with a beard. She can’t say ‘no thanks, I want a woman’, so she says ‘no examination I’ve changed my mind’.

Self ID means that any man can say that they are a woman - there is no medical or psychological rubber stamp for this. You just fill out a form. It’s more tricky to get a passport or driving licence!

We cannot give a legal status to a very small genuine % of society which allows others to misuse it.

I’ve not seen transphobia on here but genuine concern - possibly amplified - over the very nasty, aggressive and threatening dialogue put out by some who are pushing forceably for self ID. Those who are mostly men, supported by their female supporters.

Questioning is not a crime.

And don’t get me started in the man who has been pumped full of god only knows what drugs to breastfeed a baby. Actually breastfed a real baby. Good for the man, but what is that baby drinking? Why would you give your child breast milk if you were taking a drugs - who benefits from this?

There's a good factsheet here about the proposed legal changes and their implications.

There's an excellent article here about the way this is all playing out in RL:

It’s sometimes difficult to remember, amongst all the arguments, exactly what women stand to lose here. The sex category ‘female’ is being asked to absorb the sex category ‘male’. What women are being forced to accept could literally not be any more extreme.

The Scottish govt. are currently consulting on self-ID. You can make your views known here. You have 14 days left for that.

@Lovesagin I have no idea how a trans person feels. But what I mean is for those who feel they were born into the wrong body

Also ask yourselves, how many women you know who routinely go round telling other women to Die In A Fire; or that their "musty cunts" should be raped by someone else's female penis?

Did you see India Willoughy on GMTV and the way she bulldozed over Karen Ingala-Smith in discussion? In general, I'd say that comes from having the confidence of being socialized male.

I don't get it really. It seems to me that transgender and feminism go hand in hand. Both groups want to break gender stereotypes-

No they don't. Gender critical feminists say that both sexes should wear what they like, love who they want, just clothes innit. Transactivism states a man in a dress is a woman. That reiforces the stereotype. This is why there is a rush of kids taking puberty blockers and confused which sex they are. they have bought the lie that sex is optional and the sexist stereotype is the sex, not the biological fact.

We used to challenge stereotypes, now we medicate children who don't conform.

TellsEveryone. I'm not, nor do I wish to be, down with the 'trendy kids'. If a transman or transwoman said to me their would prefer to be called by he/she/they, it doesn't bother me to do so. Please don't patronise me for doing so.

It seems to me that transgender and feminism go hand in hand

No - feminists say 'wear what you like'
Transgender say 'OMG a girl played with a toy truck and likes the colour blue, she must be a boy' and start referrals to the gender clinic and insisting on the girl being called he.

I so wish I was joking.

There is absolutely transphobia on this site. If you read the Hannah Mouncey thread, there are users openly admitting that they are transphobic. While i agree that there are things that need to be understood and worked out, there is a disproportionate number of threads focused on trans issues, which makes them seem bigger than they are. And whatever sensible debate might be happening, it's getting hijacked by the narrow-minded and hysterical. I really wish MN would do something about it because this site is starting to feel like a really unpleasant place to be.

TellsEveryone. I'm not, nor do I wish to be, down with the 'trendy kids'. If a transman or transwoman said to me their would prefer to be called by he/she/they, it doesn't bother me to do so. Please don't patronise me for doing so.

So this is a woman? And one that you would allow into a woman's refuge?

Please talk me through that thought process. I just don't get it.

I'm going to shout because despite the threads you don't actually know what they're saying - you've assumed and wrongly:

NO-ONE ON MN HAS ANY SORT OF ISSUE WITH GENUINE TRANS-PEOPLE. THEY ARE WELCOME TO WORK ALONGSIDE US AND USE OUR LOOS!!!!! WHAT WE DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IS MEN PRETENDING TO BE TRANS IN ORDER TO INTIMIDATE AND ASSAULT WOMEN.

They are wrong then. I played with trains and racing cars as a girl and my favourite colour is blue. I am an adult woman now with a husband and children. Those preferences, which I still have, have no impact on my sex (or sexuality).

They are wrong then. I played with trains and racing cars as a girl and my favourite colour is blue. I am an adult woman now with a husband and children. Those preferences, which I still have, have no impact on my sex (or sexuality).

Yes. I know that. You know that. But say that in a school, college, university and you stand to lose your job for transphobia.

I really wish MN would do something about it because this site is starting to feel like a really unpleasant place to be.

Yeah, a place called MUMSNET trying to point out the issues that WOMEN and GIRLS stand to lose. Nasty nasty place.

This reminds me of the saying ‘whatever women do they must do twice as well to be considered half as good as men’.

The arguments put forward by many of the trans threads are well thought out, reasoned and with as many stats as we are allowed to put together (as further research has been disallowed). The posters are polite and will always welcome discussion and debate - their position will not change because their eyes are open.

The TRAs (not your average transsexual) issue death threats, punch old women, threaten sexual violence - are you reading this? Read that sentence again and take it in, we are so accustomed to thinking violence against women is just ‘one of those things’.

Yet with these tools they have managed to silence women, get them fired from their jobs and are trying to change the future of womanhood in this country. Gender is a construct, sex is a reality - I don’t want my daughter to be sterilised because she likes football and boys clothes, and I don’t think she’d thank me for it.

No one here is transphobic, we just don’t have to be nice when threatened with male violence, or ever actually.

All for having an opinion? Do you know any woman who thinks rape threats are ever appropriate? Does it sound like a person you want around you and your loved ones?

This. So much.
All the abuse feminists and lesbians are getting are incredibly gendered and that's a big tell.
I saw a lovely exchange yesterday on Twitter with someone whose name was 'suck my girl balls terf'.
Imagine a woman using 'suck my genitalia' as an insult or to shut someone up?
With the exception of the 'female' before the cock or balls or whatever, it's exactly the same language I get from assholes on dating apps when I give them a polite no thank you.

Danielle Muscato's female driving license.
The degradation of language needs to be addressed. Danielle describes themself as gay. Now, does that mean attracted to men or women, in their case? I am not interested in their sex life, but if I were, language would no longer be able to describe it.

Read any report of a trans child and you will see it is based on stereotypes, nothing more. Often the children would have grown up gay, which is why transing is so popular in countries like Iran.

Women and girls matter, genderism is a religion, based on stereotypes and magical thinking. I have no issue with transsexuals, they are getting thrown under the bus alongside women and girls.