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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think it's not the end of the world if you can't have children?

336 replies

Jaygee61 · 13/02/2018 12:36

I speak as one who couldn't. Ttc for 10 years. It broke my heart. But I healed. I have a different perspective on things now. I feel there were worse things that could have befallen us, being diagnosed terminal cancer (OH did have cancer but it eas treatable fortunately) motor neuron disease, being paralysed in an accident. We live lives of joy and dignity.. We have created a great marriage and I'm proud of that. I love spending time with my nephew.

But society seems to view being childless by choice as a fate worse than death. Something not to be accepted but fought against at all cost. . If you're not prepared to go to any lengths to have a child you can't have really wanted one in the first place....

OP posts:
Viewofhedges · 13/02/2018 22:21

Jaygee I honestly think that the IVF decision is the hardest one I've ever had to make. I greatly respect those who have done it, but I didn't think I could cope. Thanks for this thread. It's good to stop and think about it all again and check that yes, still moving ahead. There will always be a bit of grief, but it does diminish.

Chattette1 · 13/02/2018 22:25

YANBU. I wouldn't describe TTC for 10 years unsuccessfully as "childless by choice" though. You're right that there are many worse things that could happen. It sounds trite but we really do have to count our blessings in life.

BettyBooJustDoinTheDoo · 13/02/2018 22:26

I have never ever wanted children, never had the slightest urge, in fact I have had nightmares about being pregnant and literally woken in a panic! But what I am very curious about is why that is, Why are some women like me never want children and others would commit suicide (according to this thread) if they could not have them, we are all women and biologically we are the same but we don’t have the same reproductive urges? I know we are all individuals with preferences etc but the average woman for want of a better phrase, generally do want children......I’m just musing really.....

Original poster
Jaygee61 · 13/02/2018 22:31

I’ve just realised that in the second paragraph of my OP I meant to say childless not by choice. Sorry about that.

OP posts:
scrabbler3 · 13/02/2018 22:54

My colleague has been ttc for some time (not sure how long) and she hasn't heard any cliches about exotic hols or soft furnishings (yet) but someone did say, "have [my toddler] if you want, he's a bloody nightmare at the moment. You'd soon hand him back".

People mean well but I don't understand what's so hard about saying, "sorry you're having problems, we can talk if you like".

I agree with the comments about oversold IVF and about how it was easier in the past in some ways because you had the choice of adoption or "getting on with it", but I wouldn't express that opinion to an infertile couple IRL. It wouldn't be helpful or thoughtful.

Leiaorganashair · 13/02/2018 23:22

I would never have been approved for adoption. Even if I would have been considered a suitable candidate, I'm from a minority Asian background. Last time I checked they won't place a child outside of their birth culture. Never mind I've lived in the UK almost exclusively since I was a child.

People who casually say "haven't you thought of adopting or fostering?" Also used to wind me up.

user838383 · 14/02/2018 00:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pallisers · 14/02/2018 01:48

Children are usually only hard work for about 11 or 12 years

I wouldn't tell childless people they are lucky to go on holidays and I would have been devastated if I couldn't have had children but the above statement is utterly untrue in my experience.

My teens were harder work than my babies. I gave up work when my 14 year old had a breakdown - not when I had a toddler.

People who have children who need life-long support can't sign-off after 12 years.

juddyrockingcloggs · 14/02/2018 06:45

Can I ask how long you were TTCing, Juddy? In my case, we tried (unsuccessfully) for eight years and I didn’t have the luxury of putting my life on hold- still had to earn a living, care for sick relatives, keep a marriage going. All the important stuff I was thankful I focused on.

10 years or so from starting TTC to actually getting pregnant. We would have gone on for as long as I physically and we financially could have done. I had to earn a living (mainly to pay for it!) and thankfully my marriage came out the other side strong and cared for so in that respect I am incredibly lucky but the whole experience was draining but I am so glad we kept going.

Obviously, what's right for one isn't right for another though!

AmberTopaz · 14/02/2018 08:16

Surely this is just about empathy and accepting we are all different.

Some childless people do not think it’s the end of the world and don’t want your pity.

Some childless people feel a very strong grief about it and deserve their grief to be respected and not minimised.

Neither is right or wrong. It’s just a matter of being sensitive and, if you’re not sure which category the person you’re taking to falls into, trying to avoid saying things which could be hurtful in either case.

user838383 · 14/02/2018 08:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Jaygee61 · 14/02/2018 09:32

I had premature ovarian failure - ran out of eggs basically - so there was no real choice about whether to carry on, which was a good thing really - at least I was not thinking what if it works next time?

OP posts:
crispsandgin · 14/02/2018 09:44

But society seems to view being childless by choice as a fate worse than death. Something not to be accepted but fought against at all cost

No it doesn't. Its perfectly normal and acceptable to be childless by choice.
But you are not, so what is your point anyway? Childless not by choice is generally seen by the person themselves to be fought against, like you did.

Original poster
Jaygee61 · 14/02/2018 09:51

I meant to say "childless not by choice" as I explained a couple of posts back.

OP posts:
crispsandgin · 14/02/2018 09:54

It still doesn't make sense though. It isn't this nebulous notion of society that thinks not having children that you really want is awful, is it? It's you, the person who can't have them. "Society" just feels bad for you that you can't have what you wanted.
Where is the problem there? Do you want people to say tough luck, it doesn't matter to you instead?

FiveShelties · 14/02/2018 09:55

I was unable to have children and it is tough, but life is not fair and you just have to get on with it, otherwise it takes over your life. I must admit to finding it difficult as my friends got grandchildren, something I had never thought about.

Thre are many upsides to not having children but I still wonder occasionally, what might have been.

Lweji · 14/02/2018 09:58

Do you think the need you felt to have children was yours or driven from societal expectations?

Btw, isn't insensitive and thoughtless to post on a thread by a person coming to terms with not having biological children that, for you, it was indeed the end of the world?

Good for you, Jay, for coming to terms with not having biological children.
Whatever works for you. It wouldn't be healthy to let your life be dictated by that one issue.
You and your husband are certainly worth in your own right. You're not defined by the children you have or not.

Thursdaydreaming · 14/02/2018 10:34

YANBU that having children doesn't make or break a life, but YABU to say that But society seems to view being childless by choice as a fate worse than death

If anything I would say it's opposite. It's acceptable to be a bit upset, but the attitude is generally "OK well that disappointing but get over it, at least you can travel/have cream carpets/kids are annoying anyway, really you're the lucky one".

Thehogfather · 14/02/2018 10:36

betty in my mind it's the same as the decision about how many dc to have. There are women like me who physically could sail through having half a dozen, but actively choose to just have one and feel more than fulfilled. And other women who struggle with secondary infertility because more dc are that important to them.

I've pondered occasionally about what life would be like with more than one, but never seriously thought about it, and from conversations with childless by choice women they generally think the same about having any.

crisps I'm not sure I'd agree. I'm not quite mid 30's with a teen, and nobody ever makes comments or quizzes me about whether I intend to start a second round along with my peers with time ticking by to meet the right man, biological clock etc. Or asks if I want one of my own when a peer is passing round a newborn. And the independence I'll have in my 40's is only ever seen as positive, not sad because I won't have a child at home. But I'd be lying if I said I hadn't heard the reverse regarding women who are childless by choice.

Original poster
Jaygee61 · 14/02/2018 10:45

I think that the point I am trying to make is that there is a lot of pressure to not give up on fertility treatment. There is almost a stigma attached. There is more sympathy and support if you are still trying than if you have given up. A year or two ago Radio 4 Woman's Hour did a programme about moving on from failed fertility treatment. The phone in part was jammed with people who'd had successful treatment going "don't give up, don't give up". It was horrible.

OP posts:
LoniceraJaponica · 14/02/2018 11:28

“But you are 100% right that children are not the sole worth of a person, that you still matter and have value and can do many fulfilling and worthwhile things even if you were unable to become a parent (or didn't want to!).”

This with multiple bells on. I don’t find Lweji’s comments crass in the least openbluewater. I agree with Lweji’s next post as well. She has a pragmatic view of life that I totally agree with, but I never felt that having children was the only reason I was put on this earth. Life is for living, and you have to make the most of what you are dealt with. I agree that there is more to life than having children. I can say this having been childless and now having a child.

For the record I had infertility investigations and was told that being able to get pregnant and carry a baby to full term was nigh on impossible, so I decided to seize the opportunity to do things that were incompatible with having children. 17 years after starting TTC DD was born. The pregnancy was completely spontaneous and unexpected. I love DD to bits, but I found the transition to parenthood after having so much freedom really hard.

My life is different now – not better and not worse, but different. I know I would still be as happy if I hadn’t had DD. Being a parent brings a lot of worries with it. I sometimes wonder if I have something missing in my biological make up because I was never bothered about having children and have never been able to understand the yearning that some women have, especially when they are agonising about whether to go for child number 6/7/8 etc.

I do feel sad for people for whom having children is so important to them and are unable to do so. Living with disappointment all your adult life is so pointless and destructive.

DD (17) has told me that she definitely doesn’t want children, and I am fine with that. I am not desperate to be a grandmother, nor would I be unhappy if I did. I’m pretty ambivalent about it. I just want DD to be happy.

Interestingly, all of my child free friends have stayed together and have very happy marriages (30 years plus)

crunchymint · 14/02/2018 11:43

I wanted children, but never had that overwhelming urge. Like some other posters I have never really wanted anything desperately since I was a kid. So I really do not understand it.
I have had shit things happen in my life and have a fairly pragmatic view of life. I think you just make your life the best it can be. No point dwelling on what you can't have - although I admit when I am down I still do. But when I am happy like I am at the moment, I just think of what I do have in my life that is good.
I know it is old fashioned to count your blessings, but if you can, it really does help. I know being born and living in Britain that I have a way easier life than most people on the planet.

crunchymint · 14/02/2018 11:46

And I agree that lots of negative comments are said about women who are childless by choice. It is okay if you are childless and don't say why - because you might be suffering from infertility. But when women say no they don't want children and it is an active choice, that is viewed very differently.

BoilYerHeid · 14/02/2018 12:05

You are through the other side of your grief and trauma and you are saying 'life goes on, there are other things to live for' etc. That's great for you and I'm happy you've got to that place. I'm just not sure how helpful it is to those still in that place because for some it is hard to believe that there is light at the end of the tunnel. I know because I was in that place and never, ever, came to terms with the prospect of not having children. I felt desperately sad and in pain and thought about self harm and suicide. It is still incredibly tender and I feel like your post pokes at an emotional bruise.

Nothing is the end of the world, except the end of the world, and we're not quite there yet. But one decent thing I've seen on MN is that you shouldn't compare grief. People have all sorts of differing shit going on in their lives and it's not hugely useful to start ranking pain, especially the pain of others. It makes people going through an awful time feel even worse. By all means say to yourself 'things could be worse, x could be worse than this y I am going through,' but don't try to diminish the pain of y as a generality.

MargaretCavendish · 14/02/2018 12:12

Nothing is the end of the world, except the end of the world, and we're not quite there yet.

Yes, that's what I was thinking too. I know people who have been widowed young, or been diagnosed with life changing illnesses, and who have gone to have really happy, fulfilled lives. But that doesn't mean it would be helpful to tell them days after their husband died that it wasn't the end of the world because they'd feel better eventually. Grief doesn't work like that, including the grief of infertility.