If you don’t see the issue with TW being classed as women please read this.

[bambambini]

Especially if you have daughters who play sports. Do we really want to have “woman” “girl” “female” totally redifined so that sny msle can say they are a woman? If yes- are you really ok with your daughters facing this now and in the future?

amp.theage.com.au/sport/afl/hannah-mouncey-visits-afl-house-after-failing-to-get-information-from-officials-20180202-h0swtp.html?__twitter_impression=true

There is a specific knee injury suffered by women in this sport far more than men. I tried to copy and paste the info, but failed. The article listed all the biological differences in the structure of the knee between men and women. Very little of that is going to be affected by hormones should a TIM even take them.

Women are biologically different than men, and therefore compete separately. TIMs have a male body. Even if they have a 'lady brain' , they have a man body. Otherwise, they wouldn't struggle with their identity, would they.

I just do not see how women can support women’s sport based on the biological need at the same time ignoring any biological differences. If biology does not matter women’s sport does not need to exist. As Hannah has been accepted only time will tell, as the decision makers seem to have had their hands tied.

Also - having a son who plays rugby, and having had many female rugby playing friends over the years, regarding the claim that there is a rugby club somewhere in the UK which is happily letting a 15 year old girl practice full contact tackles, scrums, rucks, etc. against 15 year old boys in training... Either that poster is flat out lying, or the coach at their rugby club needs their coaching licence revoked as soon as possible. It just isn't safe.

^ This. If it is true please withdraw your DD and report the coach to the RFU immediately.

It amazes me that women exist, who cannot see how unfair this is on their own kind. Any women fancy playing basketball against this trans woman? FFS.

So are you actually going to come back @octoberfarm and address the points @GenderHurts has made?

Or how about Lindsay Walker, a 7 ft (Yes, SEVEN foot) tall basket ball player, who used to be Greg? (He's the one on the right). Is it fair for women to play against her him ?

Indeed picklemepopcorn and then there's those bastions of sexism known as male voice choirs . . .

picklemepopcorn probably injury to the ACL. Females are at 4-6 times higher risk than males.

Why can't the mens' sports be nice and accepting of men who like to identify as women? Why do the biological women have to sacrifice their places on sports teams instead?

TIM athletes do not want to be accepted onto male teams. They want to play as women, on female teams.

Or against women, anyway.

TIM athletes do not want to be accepted onto male teams. They want to play as women, on female teams.

And governing bodies need to have the collective balls (pun totally intended) to say “actually no, you can’t”

Male voice choirs need a male voice. Female choirs need female voices. The music is written with that in mind. Although perhaps we'll have to call them high voice and low voice choirs, as some women have very low voices these days. We'll not get into the castratos...

That the injury, idea. The knee is built differently. A TIM's knee is not the same as a woman's knee, no matter how much they want it to be or claim it is.

Pretty much everyone in any kind of authority needs to have the collective balls to say "no, you can't" to these role!

My DS was irritated that without any discussion with students, the disabled toilet has been declared 'gender neutral'. I pointed out that means he can use it now. After all, it's now open to everyone.

I also suggested that he could claim to wear a bra at the weekend, if he wanted to.

Sorry, I haven't had time to read all the thread yet, but isn't Hannah Mouncey the man who became a lesbian, who broke a female opponent's leg playing Australian rules football?

In my under 15's school rugby team, all of the back-row were 13stone plus and over 6ft. The second rows were 6'2 and 6'3.

As an example, Melissa Clay is 5'6 and 10stone and plays senior international rugby for Wales in the second row / back row.

Most of the Wales squad are similar sizes.

At almost any village team there will be 6'4 17stone players. If any of these decide they'd be willing to pretend to be a woman to get a chance to play international rugby in front of a packed stadium, it doesn't matter how much more skilled or fit Melissa is, a 70% weight advantage + greater reach + greater strength means she wouldn't be selected.

Sex segregation in sport is there for a reason.

If the only solution is to make women's sport only available to women (for avoidance of doubt only including those born as women) and not taking testosterone, whilst men's is reclassified as "Open", so be it.

Sod it, I've reverted to an old user name to post this in answer to Andrewofgg and Pickle:

My son's school had a very popular all-boys/male staff choir, for broken voices only. Then his year acquired a transboy who wanted to sing in it.

So the music staff nicely, understandingly, kindly changed the repertoire to accommodate a soprano, even though the boy trebles weren't allowed to take part. Then, to even the parts out or maybe make the child less conspicuous, some of the female staff started to sing with the choir.

In a single year, the choir became less of a magnet for the boys, and something rather special was lost.

Previous years had nearly 30 boys in the all-boy choir, many taking singing lessons and performing in the school musical. This year has a small handful still singing, none taking lessons, very few getting on stage - it's a shame.

OP - YABU. It may well be dangerous for a woman who is way bigger and stronger than the other women to play women's rugby. That's something the regulators obviously need to resolve. But it's not indicative of some kind of broader problem with people who were born male identifying as women, which is what your subject line implies. Your argument doesn't follow at all. So stop using it as a basis for your transphobic rabble-rousing.

It is relevant why they're identifying as trans woman, because if you block out the rights of all trans woman based on the exceedingly few that have bad intentions, that's an entire population you're denying the rights of, who are just regular people like you or I.

Is is not relevant because the simple fact is that if trans women whatever their reasons are allowed to compete in women's sports then cis women will cease to have a place in competitive sport. There will be men's teams and 'women's' teams made up of people who were born male. It won't take long for those born with vaginas to realise they don't stand a chance in hell of winning at sport at international or national level, and probably county too.

Absolutely anathema

yawn

How do you propose they regulate it?

If you accept that "women" born men have an advantage then the only logical way of keeping women safe is to not allow them.

You can't hide behind your transphobia accusation when it is a fact. Not opinion. Fact.

if you block out the rights of all trans woman based on the exceedingly few that have bad intentions, that's an entire population you're denying the rights of

What rights are potentially being denied to transwomen? It seem only to be the right to force others to pretend a delusion or desire is fact?

Transwomen can take part in male sports or trans sports - nobody is trying to ban mens' sports. Transwomen can vote same as everyone else
Transwomen can wear what they like. Transwomen can be politicians without being on an all women short list - there's no ban on men in politics.

What actual rights are being denied?

If identity defines everything then where are the female trans people fighting for spots to compete against men? Are there any? Does anyone really think that even if the likes of Serena Williams, one of the best female athletes ever, suddenly identified as a man she would stand a chance? Noone thinks that. That's because biology exists

But you’re ok with denying 51% of the population their rights?