To find this offensive? No whites allowed

[chipvinegar]

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/2018/02/12/wellness-retreat-in-costa-rica-that-bans-white-people-sparks-controversy.amp.html

I don't live an America, and I have no experience of racism in America, I somewhat understand the desire to have a "safe space" or a space to hold conversation around the issues, however the lady running it "eliminated all white people from her personal life" doesn't think white people should own passports etc

That's a lot of negativity for a "healing" retreat

The empowerment part... yeah, but the self segregation? Travelling backwards rather than forwards somewhat surely?!

You know Emma, I think I just read that she was crying about your lack of patronage.

Ahem...

I don't live an America, and I have no experience of racism in America, I somewhat understand the desire to have a "safe space" or a space to hold conversation around the issues

There. That's what the retreat is about. YABU. This is the same as a man saying it's offensive to be banned from a women-only retreat, and being told it's offensive by someone who has no experience of what it's like to be a woman, just like you have no experience of living in America or experiencing racism in America.

A PP said it's discriminatory, but not racist. I agree with that.

AskBasil
I agree with your comment about power structures. However the “rules”, which apply on a international level don’t always apply at a local level. I can well believe there are places and areas, where subjugated people become the dominant ones. Just because this isn’t repeated large scale, it doesn’t make that any less devastating for the person/people being subjugated. So what would you call that oppression? I don’t agree with calling it as unusual beliefs.

And I can't get particularly worked up about it, considering apartheid and black children trying to attend previously all-white schools in the US being screamed at and having things thrown at them by children and adults are, shamefully, within living memory.

The retreat isn't racist but the comment about the passports is disgusting, racist and divisive.

Mummyoflittledragon yes I agree with that.

I don't think what this woman is doing is oppressing anyone. It just doesn't affect white people at all. It has no impact whatsoever on the wider world.

Hence my understated language.

I must go to work so can't engage as much as I'd like, but I do accept that power structures can change and that in various enclaves, the tables can turn and the powerful as a group can become the powerless.

I just don't think that's happening in this individual case though. I just think this woman is excluding white women and that's fine - black women have a right to meet and share their experiences, without having to take into account the feelings of white women and having to try and remember to include them.

The only possible impact her healing camp or whatever she calls it would have upon white women is

a) if you as a white woman feel that you have the right to go and impose yourself on black women and want to do that and feel outraged that you can't and aren't willing to listen to black women who tell you that they would like that space for their own well-being and why

or

b) if you are a white woman who identfies as a black woman and feel hurt and distressed that other black women do not recognise you as black.

I don't think either of those groups has a valid gripe tbh. I'm slightly more sympathetic to group b) because along with all their other troubles, they are mad.

Off to work now, have a good debate.

I really can’t see the issue. They want a space free from white people. I’m not black so I have no idea what it is like to be black. I’m a woman and I know the idea of women’s only spaces appeals to me though. If they say there’s a need for such spaces then there’s a need for such spaces.

I lived in a "black" country for many years and encountered some cases of overt racism towards me. Mainly irritating little things like being ignored in shops up to being shouted at in public just because of the lack of colour in my skin.
I handled the minor rudeness firmly but have to admit that being harangued for being white really upset me.

I have no issue with the retreat being black only but the owner is racist and a huge hypocrite.

Hi OP here, fell asleep last night

To clarify... I don't find the empowerment or safe space side to this offensive, as I say I haven't grown up in America and I haven't experienced racism in America and I understand it to be far behind the UK in many ways regarding racism depending on the state. The idea of healing/wellness and safe space... that part I can appreciate

I find offensive the view of the lady who has set it up that whites are so bad she has eliminated ALL of them from her personal life, thinks they shouldn't own passports etc and is promoting/inciting negativity towards white people. Some are fairly nice people... if you watch the video, it really sounds like she's nothing nice to say about any white person and wants to go so far backwards to a time black and white simply don't mix at all.... period. That's where I find it offensive

white people can't be targets of racism in a world where we benefit from structures of oppression.

This is a theory, not a fact, and it's bullshit. It's basically a massively discredited platitude which is trotted out to excuse massive racism.

I think perhaps you should visit Rotherham or Rochdale and tell the girls there that the system is biased towards them. I think they may disagree.

The retreat is one thing, but the bit about passports is obviously and blatantly racist and you can't explain that away.

It's ludicrous to suggest that white people cannot suffer racism. Tell that to the Polish in WW2.

Reverse racism is a ridiculous term for anyone to use. It's just racism. By any standard dictionary definition including as defined by the United Nations.

I'm a feminist. It doesn't mean I can't accept that men are sometimes the victims of sexism.

What's this reverse racism crap?! There's no such thing, there's racism.

Racism exists in every culture but it's acceptable if it's against white people because were all so privileged

IT is racism, imagine this happened with a white owner saying no black people allowed, we need white only safe spaces. So racism is only confined to black or other races, but not to white people 🤔

Maybe the reason is that she has been hurt so many times by whites that she can’t face having to deal with yet other comment/action that is racist.

Studies show that even (white) people who say they are absolutely NOT racist still have very strong prejudices towards black people.
So I can totally see someone would then conclude that the safest and best hing to do to avoid being hurt due to racism is to avoid said white people.

I think accepting that we still are crap towards certain ethnicity is sometimes hard to swallow. We want to think we are all better than that. And realising how deep said prejudice runs isn’t alwys easy to spot.

But you be sure that people on the other side do notice.

Btw if you think that Britain isn’t a racist country, think again. How many black People are going to Oxbridge? What’s the level of unemployment in the black community compare to whites? What happened during the last recession, who lost their jobs first?

Yes that owner is racist having those views against white people, imagine people holding those views about black people, tgat woukd be totally unacceptable, but it's ok for a black person to hold those views against white people.

The existence of the retreat itself isn't a problem, i.e a space specifically for people of colour. Its a private business and caters for a very niche element of the population. I honestly can't think of a reason a white person would want to go there. Its not like its the local leisure centre is it?

For what its worth I'd say the same about a resort that was for white people only. (Although I'd be very suspicious of the motives for setting up a whites only holiday destination)

The owner is a racist though. She makes negative, sweeping statements about people of another race based entirely on their skin colour.

Please don't start with the 'black people can't be racist' bullshit.

The definition of racism as 'prejudice plus power' is a deliberate misinterpretation of complex social theories. Its a stipulative definition which is used in some contexts in order to simplify complex arguments about structural inequalities etc, it is certainly not intended to be the only correct definition of the word and to replace all others.

Using it in this way is mostly done by people with an agenda to excuse obvious racism and in some cases actual hate speech because its coming from a person that doesn't suit their agenda of what a 'racist' is.

Because of course criticising someone for being white 'isn't racism' because you know... reasons.

Of course it is. And I wasn’t happy reading the article about it, but it cant really be a place of healing and calm if it’s in mind you won’t accept a certain demographic of people.
I kind of view it as a fair warning. If you wouldn’t be welcome there, you’d not find it relaxing or positive being there. No reason to go then. End of for me.

The owner also holds racist views against whites, that is unacceptable. It seems like she wants back only safe spaces as she dislikes whites.

Yes that owner is racist having those views against white people, imagine people holding those views about black people, tgat woukd be totally unacceptable

But that’s completely different.
White People have a situation of privilege. Excluding black people from white space is about the expression of that privilege and showing that ‘those’ People area nit good enough.
Black people wanting to be in their own is abrotection and safe place because they do NOT have a situation of privilege.

The situations just can not be compared.

I get that white people are the oppressors but what confuses me is the grouping of the entire white race as having the same white privilege. Eg Irish travellers, Jewish & Eastern Europeans can have different privileges & experiences.