Not quite a TAAT (I hope) but a follow on from the Are You a Feminist thread....

[BertrandRussell]

If you said no, could you say why? And if possible, could you give examples- I know a couple of people have said that they think feminism has gone too far, and feminists think all men are rapists that sort of thing. If you think that, could you say why? What have you read, or listened to that brought you to that belief? No “tearing to shreds” I promise!

Oops, sorry, just spotted this:

It just makes the user look a pathetic sheep like cunt to be honest.

Only it’s directed to feminists from people who disagree with the OP

BertrandRussell
Bindel was joking. As is obvious

To use a well-worn phrase from the MN Feminist pages .... do you have any evidence or a source to corroborate your view that she was joking?

Meph, but there will always be extremists identifying with a movement. One can't dismiss the whole movement because of this. You've already pointed out how you oppose extremists in movements you support, and so do I.
I absolutely disagreed with that article by Bindel and ranted about it at the time. It didn't for one minute make me question being a feminist.
The appalling attitudes and comments of my middle class lefty friends over Brexit (and I am a remainer) utterly appalled me. it put me off many people of the left but my politics remain on the left. there is a distinction there.
'I want to promote equality for all. The underachievement of boys worries me. As it does for most educators. I think it is wrong to promote women's rights to the extent that you lose sight of the needs of all groups in society.'
Mrs Muddle, as a mother of boys this worries me too. In fact I think the whole education system, at least for the younger children, suits the needs of girls better than boys. But feminism is about championing women's/girls issues. Have you ever criticised BME groups for only campaiging on issues affecting BME people? Have you ever criticised LGBT groups for only campaigning on issues affecting LGBT people? Why are only women attacked for speaking up for issues affecting women in women's names? I have never really heard other groups attacked for campaigning on issues affecting them, in their own name.

Watch this video (that Julie Bindel herself wrote, produced, presented and posted) and show me where any of it is followed by an "only joking"

Why are only women attacked for speaking up for issues affecting women in women's names? I have never really heard other groups attacked for campaigning on issues affecting them, in their own name.

Excellent point.

The trans stuff imho isn’t really about the vanishingly small percentage of nice transwomen who are quietly getting along with their lives, it’s about changing laws so any man can say he’s female and then access all female spaces with impunity. Ime of men there are enough that like to dominate, disgust, humiliate and scare women and girls that those men will be more than happy to say they’re a woman to get access to areas they think will be titillating to them. It’s literally nothing to do with transpeople and everything to do with sex offenders.

I find it interesting that by far the most aggressive comments are from people who say they are not feminists, directed to those who say they are. All the time we hear that feminists are too angry (although if you're not angry, you're not paying attention) or too aggressive, yet take a look at the hostile people on here. They're the ones who aren't feminist.

Of course marriage was a patriachal institution but it must now be unrecognizable to the (presumably) men who started it.

We are obviously no longer our husbands' property. Sure, our property legally becomes theirs but likewise theirs becomes ours. We don't have to take their names anymore. In the same way they've ditched obeying, I genuinely think ditching the giving away part of the ceremony might go a long way to soothing the feminists' fevered brow on the subject.

"Feminists' fevered brow". Here we go again. Even when feminist women are simply aware of and merely point out the misogyny in certain practices, people just try to mock and dismiss us.

Why do people have such a problem with feminists? It can't be because they find us aggressive as they like to state, because as we can see from this thread and in day to day life, it is people who are not feminist who are really the most hostile.

I don't like the connotations 'feminist' has (thanks Tumblr), so no, I don't identify as a feminist. I do, however, stand up for equal rights.

Francine I didn't say Bindel
joking about marriage being an anti feminist choice. I said she was joking when she was asked, for the millionth time, what should be done about male violence and suggested putting them in a holiday camp with lots of cars to drive round until they worked out how to behave better. If anyone can read that and think it was a serious position they must be a feminist. Feminists are famous for their lack of a sense of humour, aren't they?

I don't agree with many of the things people say on this thread why they are feminists. It's not my tribe, I'm completely alienated.

Could someone who doesn’t consider themselves a feminist please give some examples of ‘equal rights’ that they are striving for? What does equality look like to you? How equal do you think the world is just now?

lljkk which things specifically don’t you like from this thread? What would you change about feminism?

“don't agree with many of the things people say on this thread why they are feminists. It's not my tribe, I'm completely alienated.”
Can you say any more about this?

@hungryhenryshouldeatelsewhere and others. Well said!!

Pumperthepumper
Could someone who doesn’t consider themselves a feminist please give some examples of ‘equal rights’ that they are striving for?

Sure. I didn't give any business to a tradesman who passed a racist comment in my presence.

While I was still at work, I reported a colleague whose reason for not hiring someone was because they were (his words) "too long in the tooth.

I challenged a female colleague who was desperate to get a man on her then all female team.

I have brought my children up to look beyond race, age, religion, sexual orientation, sex, disability or anything else which is irrelevant to the person they are.

I can do all of the above without calling myself a feminIST.

I don't call myself an EqualIST either. I can say what I believe in, and -crucially in a democracy, will vote for, without adopting a label of e.g. "socialIST" or "humanIST"

The actions and the beliefs are more important than the label especially if the label is so discredited

Francine, I apologise, I should have been more specific:

Can someone who doesn’t consider themselves a feminist please give some examples of ‘equal rights’ between the sexes that they are striving for? What does equality between the sexes look like to you? How equal do you think the world is just now?

I understand that you don’t like the label of ‘feminism’ Francine. I’m interested to hear from people who label themselves ‘non-feminist’ not just rejecting all labels in any circumstance.

Suburban if you go to the thread that inspired this one you will see a fair few examples of posters being called "thick", "stupid" and "morons".

I dislike the exclusive nature of the feminist boards on here. They chase away any real debate over lots of important issues.
I remember a poster once said of FWR that it resembled Rodean Girls common room. It is certainly cliquey with unpleasant, teenagery whispering campaigns designed to close down debate and keep out those who ask awkward questions. I think that poster was being unfair to Roedean girls.

Can someone who doesn’t consider themselves a feminist please give some examples of ‘equal rights’ between the sexes that they are striving for?

I have worked very hard in my daughter's school to ensure that teenage girls are not discouraged from STEM subjects, that they understand the risks associated with social media and grooming etc. I would boycott any business that I learned was not paying men and women the same (for the same grade and experience).

without citing any examples of where people who disagree with the OP have been called names or insulted.
The op wanted reasons, on other threads, for example the thread this is based on, the people who said they weren't feminists were mocked and called names, would you like me to copy and paste the insults?
I never said on this thread, i said these were my reasons why.

DioneTheDiabolist
Thank you.
That thread was supposed to be only are you a feminist, yes or no, yet people couldn't resist insulting people who said no, even trying to insinuate certain threads didn't exsist...

I have worked very hard in my daughter's school to ensure that teenage girls are not discouraged from STEM subjects, that they understand the risks associated with social media and grooming etc.

What a brilliant thing to do! That’s excellent. But it doesn’t benefit boys so it isn’t ‘equal’ from a standpoint of ‘I believe in equal rights for all’.

You seem to do a lot for women Francine, or at least appreciate that women are at a disadvantage in a lot of areas. I’m really interested in hearing from the posters who believe that everyone should be treated the same ie no need for women-targeted programmes like yours above because that excludes men or boys.

What a brilliant thing to do! That’s excellent. But it doesn’t benefit boys so it isn’t ‘equal’ from a standpoint of ‘I believe in equal rights for all’.

Boys have not been historically told that engineering and physics are girls subjects have they?

I agree with most things the OP says and have been on MN for years.

However, I think the style annoys people and pushes them away from what the OP is claiming to do.

It's always this wide eyed 'i'm interested to hear why you think X or Y?' when to most of us who have been here long enough think it isn't a genuine interest and just an opportunity to tell people with differing opinions why they are wrong which comes across as an attempt to make the OP seem superior and obviously makes people feel defensive.

Which is a shame. As she knows what she is talking about. The delivery is sometimes shit though and confirms to some minds, why they don't identify as feminist.