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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Not quite a TAAT (I hope) but a follow on from the Are You a Feminist thread....

606 replies

BertrandRussell · 10/02/2018 08:31

If you said no, could you say why? And if possible, could you give examples- I know a couple of people have said that they think feminism has gone too far, and feminists think all men are rapists that sort of thing. If you think that, could you say why? What have you read, or listened to that brought you to that belief? No “tearing to shreds” I promise!

OP posts:
Original poster
BertrandRussell · 10/02/2018 10:12

And Julie Bindel may have a "bee in her bonnet"- she is an active campaigner against the sex industry that is so damaging for many women....

OP posts:
Debinaround · 10/02/2018 10:19

I would have said no a few years ago but not now.

I kind of think that women who say they want equal rights for all but don't consider themselves feminists are a bit like anti vaccas. They get the heard immunity without realising that there is a problem. Not sure that makes sense but it does in my head. Grin

FrancinePefko · 10/02/2018 10:20

Please feel to question how up to date my knowledge of neoclassical endogenous economic growth theory is too.

I stay up to date with the stuff I am interested in.

FrancinePefko · 10/02/2018 10:22

Debinaround
I would have said no a few yeaI kind of think that women who say they want equal rights for all but don't consider themselves feminists are a bit like anti vaccas

So we're stupid? Ah, now I see. Thanks for that.

Debinaround · 10/02/2018 10:22

Where did I say you were stupid?

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 10/02/2018 10:25

"I stay up to date with the stuff I am interested in"

Fair enough -not sure why you're on the thread though! But you're welcome of course.

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aloropot · 10/02/2018 10:26

It's very, deeply uncool to be a feminist. It's also a lot easier, because you don't have to engage with any of it.

It must be very relaxing to just shut your eyes and ignore it all, and say "oh I'm for equality but not if I'd have to actually challenge anything".

You get to virtue signal and look attractive, while casually taking benefits which others win for you.

If I could, I would. I'm not even being sarcastic, it sounds nice.

FrancinePefko · 10/02/2018 10:28

You asked a question. I answered it. Do you not want people to answer the question you pose in your own thread?

You have allowed your movement to be defined by the extremes. No wonder people don't want to adopt your label.

fidgetsmumx · 10/02/2018 10:31

So from what I’ve gathered thus far this thread is for everyone who is a feminist to pick apart those who’d prefer not to be..
I’m out :)

esk1mo · 10/02/2018 10:31

im with francine

CandlesAndIncense · 10/02/2018 10:31

If you believe that the sexes are equal and women deserve equality with men then you are a feminist, whether you use the label or not.

I genuinely have friends, in this day and age, women; educated and intelligent women, who believe firmly that women are not only 'better', but 'designed' for childcare. Women who excuse and permit awful behaviour from the men in their lives on the basis that they can't help it because they are men. Women who believe that women shouldn't go to the pub, or drink beer and that women really shouldn't be out at work. They should be at home where they belong.

They are not feminists. Unless you agree with them, you are.

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 10/02/2018 10:31

"You asked a question. I answered it. Do you not want people to answer the question you pose in your own thread"
Of course I do. I think a couple of posters have got mixed up here. Are you saying that you are not a feminist because of Julie Bindel, Linda Bellos and Andrea Dworkin? It was a different poster who said she had only seen feminism on television. I can see how Dworkin might be a bit extreme for some people. What is it about Bindel and Bellos that you object to?

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Original poster
BertrandRussell · 10/02/2018 10:33

"So from what I’ve gathered thus far this thread is for everyone who is a feminist to pick apart those who’d prefer not to be.."

You said you had only seen feminists on TV. I asked who you had seen. Does that count as picking apart?

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eyeswideshit · 10/02/2018 10:33

I'm really not intending to be goady here but I see it often see it written on the feminism board that men cannot be feminist only feminist sympathisers. Why is this the case if feminism is defined as equality for all?

FrancinePefko · 10/02/2018 10:35

aloropot
It must be very relaxing to just shut your eyes and ignore it all, and say "oh I'm for equality but not if I'd have to actually challenge anything

With respect, you have absolutely no idea what I do or don't challenge in ,y day to day life. I believe in freedom, equality and the rights of the oppressed. I do not choose to label myself as any kind of "ist" because "ist" movements typically do a terrible job of managing their brand and end up in endless internecine argument. Anyone who disagrees or raises a question is told "You're doing it wrong! Radfems are right. No LibFems are right. You're a handmaiden!"

MephistophelesApprentice · 10/02/2018 10:36

Feminists on the FWR threads have explicitly stated they are not for equality, they are for 'liberation'. Don't take what they say at face value.

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 10/02/2018 10:36

I don't define feminism as equality for all. The end result of feminism will be equality for all. But the focus of feminism is women.

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araiwa · 10/02/2018 10:36

this thread will be a perfect example of why people said no

yellowpostitnote · 10/02/2018 10:37

I wonder if it is better to focus on trying to remove patriarchal views, structures and attitudes, and tackle misogyny. Use these terms more. I think the term 'feminism' has a lot of added meanings for people; equality is complicated as treating people equally does not actually mean treating them the same, which is what is generally thought to be the right approach to equality.

It's very subtle and about semantics. Unfortunately I feel 'feminism' as a word and movement gets a misogynistic treatment automatically by others, of variable degrees. Unconscious bias is very sneaky.

Personally I call myself a feminist now, but wouldn't have done in the past as I didn't really understand it nor thought it necessary. It means to me all the things I've listed above but I don't think it always does to others.

FrancinePefko · 10/02/2018 10:37

Julie Bindel said marrying a man can never be a feminist choice.

fidgetsmumx · 10/02/2018 10:38

@BertrandRussell - I’m referring to your replies to other people, your clearly not interested in people views more just if they don’t agree with you they’re wrong. Hence why I’m not bothering to humour you with a reply, because no matter what I’ll be wrong.
Extreme feminists seem to just wallow in self pity, all woe you. Not something I’d like to be included in.

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 10/02/2018 10:38

"this thread will be a perfect example of why people said no"

Why?

OP posts:
Original poster
BertrandRussell · 10/02/2018 10:40

"@BertrandRussell - I’m referring to your replies to other people, your clearly not interested in people views more just if they don’t agree with you they’re wrong."

I have only said that about porn!

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upsideup · 10/02/2018 10:42

Not sure how feminism is supposed to accommodate that

And that is why its easier for me to just reject the label 'feminist'
My views and ideas dont fit with what your idea of feminism and being a feminist involves and you are then not willing to accomodate me.
I would want to be called a feminist but fouth wave, modern day feminism is not something I wish to be associated with, nor is it something I need to be associated with. Why?

  • Feminism has reached the point where if a woman dosnt agree with you (the feminist) then shes a 'idiot' and if a man dosnt then he's 'sexist'.
-I dont want to be involved in segregating and pinning the sexes against each other, creating a stereotype that all men are agressive, sexist, abusive rapists.
  • I dont want to hold on to having my dates paid for me because somewhere some other woman is being paid less than a man, I want to fight for her to be paid the same but I dont want my husband to be called sexist for respecting my right to pay for myself.
-I have only ever been slutshamed by women, women who are self proclaimed feminists who have argued my rights to make decisions about my body or my sex life mean nothing, I am mearly an 'idiot' or a 'slut'. I want sexual freedom, no man has ever tried to take that away from me but female 'feminists' are now campaigning to reduce womens rights. -I also dont want women to be favoured by courts in getting main custody of children, I want 50/50 custody between men and women unless their is evidence of abuse or neglect because I think thats equality but the majority of feminists ignore this huge inequality because it is benefiting them, the women. -I feel feminism overshadows male victims of anything rape,violence, male disease, adultery and I dont want to be involves in this. I could go on but I won't. Sure I am by definition a feminist but I dont need to accept a label that repulses me, even if it is only a few extreme feminists who have blackend its, its still blackended for me. I can continue to fight for equality, to liberate women without wearing such a label. If feminists want to view me as a lesser, unintellegent person in doing so then fine, If anything it only makes me want to reject feminism more.
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