AIBU to think this is child abuse? (trans related)

[pisacake]

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/feb/10/raising-a-non-binary-child-as-long-as-one-of-the-side-effects-wasnt-death-it-was-the-right-way

Basically 14yo daughter came out first as lesbian, then as a boy shortly after that. She didn't want to be examined by NHS gender clinic she was referred by trans-child charity to private 'trans-your-child-by-post' GP gendergp.co.uk/.

Said Dr. sent puberty blockers, then 3 months later testosterone gel, but had second thoughts, stopping the T-gel, and remaining on the puberty blockers. Now her mum says 'It will be 18 months before they can even be referred for adult surgery. '

AIBU to think that this is horrific child abuse and that these medications should not even be an option for children under the age of 18, confused about their sexuality?

@TammySwansonTwo

Thank you for answering. THis sounds horrible.

I was under the impression that puberty blockers might have a certain impact on the mental development but are generally safe / benign.

In terms of timeline:

August 2015. Caleb comes out as gay. Aged 14.
October 2015. Caleb comes out as trans.
Early 2016. Caleb refuses the appointment at Tavistock as Caleb doesn't want to be examined.
August 2016. Dr. Webberley privately prescribes hormones. Caleb was 15.
November 2016. Dr. Webberley privately prescribes testosterone. Caleb still 15.
February 2017. Caleb identifies as non-binary and stops taking the testosterone.

The article isn't clear whether Caleb ever met Webberley. I'm guessing not as it wasn't mentioned (just that Webberley prescribed the drugs).

And, at the end of it, Webberley was wrong.

Caleb wasn't transgender after all.

My dd announced she was a boy pre-puberty. Changed her name, only wore "boys" clothes, had short hair. Photos of her at that point look like I had a ds not a dd.

I carried on calling her by the name I'd given her. SHE GREW OUT OF IT! She now says it was because she could see the boys were having more fun. She remained my "wild child" now late 20's- atm she's somewhere in South America with her (male) long term partner. She is gender critical and non conforming but is happily and visibly female.

I'm so fucking angry about this article.

The terminology used makes them sound benign but they are definitely not. Apparently some kids are reaching adulthood with zero sex drive / completely asexual and insufficient genital tissue to even perform a sex reassignment. It makes me furious that these parents are being told it’s safe and reversible.

Webberley prescribes online. She advertises that she doesn't need to meet patients in person.

Some more child abuse for you: a heterosexual couple had a baby and he took loads of drugs which are banned in the US to allow him to breastfeed her baby for 6 weeks. They know the drugs pass to babies through breast milk but this was less important to the doctors and the couple than validating the man.

www.romper.com/p/a-transgender-woman-has-exclusively-breastfed-her-baby-its-a-dream-come-true-8146751

Yy to this

"Mermaids where the CEO took her son to the US for cross-sex hormones under the age of 16, because the NHS will not give cross-sex hormones to under 16 year olds.

Mermaids, whose paid CEO took her son to Thailand so he could be permanently castrated/ have genital reassignment surgery on his 16th birthday. Thailand was apparently the only place where this surgery was performed on under 18s at the time, but they have since come into line with the rest of the world.

If her son was really a girl, this would have been considered FGM. There is no equivalent male criminal offence, but why has she not been prosecuted for child abuse? Why did the NHS medical authorities, when they realised her son was being prescribed cross-sex hormones as a child not take action to prevent this, involve social services, take a court order to prevent her son out of the country or giving him any further non NHS approved treatment? So many failures of care here!

Even supposing all this treatment was carried out by stealth, Susie Green and her son, now officially a daughter have been quite open about the treatment since the child reached adulthood. So why no prosecutions?

At the very least Susie Green, and Mermaids while she is in charge, should not be allowed near anyone's children. Justice Hayden had the right idea in banning Mermaids from contact with the family of child J."

Even if I was being nice and said that this wasn't abusive, it's certainly questionable.

These parents seem to be seriously ill equipt to deal with their childrens mental health issues and I would wonder how much this woman is projecting her own shit onto her DD.
Did she feel ugly and rejected as a female teen/adult too?
At worst it sounds like a form of Munchausen by proxy. Convincing the child and everyone else that they are 'ill' to get treatments etc and lots of attention.

These children should not be given pills and surgery. It is abuse. The brain is still immature and they haven't had the time to grow up and make adult choices.

It will be telling in 10-15 years if the suicide rate in young adult trans who have gone through this shit increases due to them realising that they will never have mature sex organs, no libido/desire, still suffer rejection and find out they are infertile. That's without the potential damage to done brain function and other internal organs.
How is this even legal.

I hated hitting puberty and didn't want boobs or a bra and my periods were awful, later linked to endo/poccs. I didn't fit the girly stereotype. Used to wear baggy clothes, boys boots, loved sci fi, building stuff, no make up etc. I was still female.

I was very lucky to be a stubborn sod who has always been old headed and refused to bow to peer pressure, but the crap that kids these days have to deal with due to the rise of social media is shocking. They are bombarded constantly and tormented if they don't conform or agree in their social circles. Taunted or encouraged by people they have never even met.

They need help but not like this.

I urge you all to read your school's trans inclusion policy. Ours (primary) urges the strongest sanctions for any child or adult who fails to respect a child's chosen pronouns.

So children aged from four upwards, who might quite often say 'Mummy' when they mean 'Miss', and who might not properly understand gender and pronouns yet, might risk the 'strongest sanctions' if they get muddled over 'he' and 'she'?

These parents seem to be seriously ill equipt to deal with their childrens mental health issues and I would wonder how much this woman is projecting her own shit onto her DD. Did she feel ugly and rejected as a female teen/adult too?

I thought the same, though it felt unkind and uncomfortable to do so.

At worst it sounds like a form of Munchausen by proxy.

It does.

Something needs to be done, this can't carry on.

I am thinking about putting together ukgov petition about mermaids in schools/influence over dfe policy. Before I do so does anyone know if there already is a petition?

Callinthepirates
Don't think there's a petition but on this thread there's lots pf advice about schools:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3154752-Trans-extremism-schools

It is worth noting that schools are (by law) meant to be politically neutral and these trans groups are NOT experts in child development / psychiatry etc. They are pressure groups seeking to change the law and society - schools are not meant to allow political groups to speak to children without offering the opposite / balanced view.

The DfE, unbelievably, promote them as they think they are tacking bullying - which they do but they also try to change school systems, behaviour, language, even our very beliefs etc - all without any consent from anyone

The DfE do have an online complaints system and frankly the more challenges they get about this, the better:

www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-education/about/complaints-procedure

Imagine Angela Rayner, mentor of Lily, becoming Education Secretary.

Thanks rowdy for directing me here.

For me the worst thing about this is how the early seeds began and School clearly did nothing. And there was no appropriate support or info for the mother. The girl was victim blamed essentially and surmised she had to change.

Just brining this to peoples attention as it closes in two days.

I feel primary schools should be looking at and challenging gender stereotyping as well as it's link to bullying. Many staff are clueless and accept and continue to affirm gender stereotypes. Some children are at risk of confusing messages if they don't 'fit' in - I've had experience of a similar situation, with a better, happier outcome.

consult.education.gov.uk/life-skills/pshe-rse-call-for-evidence/

This is the government consultation on Sex, Relationships and PSHE in schools, current (very old) guidance to be reviewed and updated.

Again for good measure!

consult.education.gov.uk/life-skills/pshe-rse-call-for-evidence/

The insanity of this:

"More and more young people are coming forward and refusing to conform to male or female gender norms. http://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/a16573995/united-states-teens-identify-transgender<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/a16573995/united-states-teens-identify-transgender/" target="_blank">/ … The next generation are the ones pushing the boundaries of gender identity and examining gender in a critical light. Mermaids is here to support them"

Why, oh why can we not reconstruct societies notions of 'gender norms'?
Why does a woman need to be feminine, or a man masculine?
The next generation, along with this generation, are pushing the boundaries of gender identity. Rightly so!
Mermaids are doing the polar opposite of this, by pushing confused children into adopting a 'pre-set gender identity' that does not conform to their biological status. They are fixing 'gender norms' upon children who have not had a chance to explore their gender identity.

Never have I read such bollocks!

There is no mention in the entire article about the daughter's obvious weight problem, which will have certainly caused some of the bullying. Why did the mother never address it?

Anyone feel like they are characters in Peter Pan?

I think we need to be careful not to create assumptions about the mother or the child not victim blame. I'm seriously questioning where the support was for them. I feel the mother was naive but there's zero mention of the School or other avenues of support early on. I think the education system is also naive.

And mermaids are exploiting naivety in the absence of proper education policy or guidance.

Why did the mother never address it?

I'm honestly not trying to be rude. But maybe because the mother herself seems to have a weight problem as well?

"More and more young people are coming forward and refusing to conform to male or female gender norms. www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/a16573995/united-states-teens-identify-transgender/ … The next generation are the ones pushing the boundaries of gender identity and examining gender in a critical light.

I really can't get my head round this. Insisting that big muscular women are lesbian, emphasising "femininity" as a one of the most important characteristic of a woman, along with a love for pink, heels and make up. not only isn't critical, it reinforces gender stereotypes.

I worry that children don't understand the bigger picture.
"I'm unhappy being a girl, so I'll be a boy and I'll be happier."
But you won't be a boy like other boys, you'll be a boy without a penis.
You can say you're the other gender but if your body still doesn't "match" you might not be any happier

Surely we should be encouraging women/girls that there is more than one way to be female. Not being petite and girly does not make you less of a woman, nor automatically a lesbian

I despair. The mother's attitude from early on, where she thinks a baby's size and build dictates sexual preference, is shocking and has without doubt had an effect on the child's interpretation of their own identity.

Some really good talking therapy would probably have worked wonders.

Why is the mother still considering surgery for her child's future? Why does she label the child 'extraordinary?' All very unhelpful.