AIBU to think this is child abuse? (trans related)

[pisacake]

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/feb/10/raising-a-non-binary-child-as-long-as-one-of-the-side-effects-wasnt-death-it-was-the-right-way

Basically 14yo daughter came out first as lesbian, then as a boy shortly after that. She didn't want to be examined by NHS gender clinic she was referred by trans-child charity to private 'trans-your-child-by-post' GP gendergp.co.uk/.

Said Dr. sent puberty blockers, then 3 months later testosterone gel, but had second thoughts, stopping the T-gel, and remaining on the puberty blockers. Now her mum says 'It will be 18 months before they can even be referred for adult surgery. '

AIBU to think that this is horrific child abuse and that these medications should not even be an option for children under the age of 18, confused about their sexuality?

Sorry if this sounds thick but why would the tavistock clinic require someone undergoes a genital examination before beginning hormone blockers? And even if it is necessary, why would you need to strip naked in front of them? Surely you'd take your clothes off in private and be covered with a sheet/gown. Is the mother exaggerating for emotional effect here?

Absolutely abuse.

PleaseDontGoadTheToad, the mother is under the influence of a cult, they are a 'Mermaid family'. Hence they believe what they are told.

TheGoals I think it’s affirmation & encouragement .

Mermaids like it's cult of followers are litigious and untouchable.

A child becomes an attention given hero once they announce transition, this is akin to false stats and "saving lives" attributed to Mermaids. It's like the whole world expect us is under some sort of spell that has made them lose the capacity to think critically and use common sense.
How can it be anything than really fucking dodgy to give kids puberty blockers that stops their genitals growing? Who knows what further damage these hormones do when they interact with the changing brain?

The awful thing about this is that the political climate around this is such that 'transphobia' has come to mean questioning anything at all related to trans issues. Any other safeguarding issue like this would be immediately clamped down on. But here you have political pressure groups writing seriously questionable guidelines for everything from swimming pool changing rooms to schools including boarding schools. You have people in schools with massive alarm bells ringing about safeguarding issues who feel they can't say anything. You have a national newspaper reporting this case like an advertorial despite the fact it includes a suspended GP and involves a charity that has had a judge raise serious questions about it for exactly these issues. And normally quite sensible Labour MPs like Angela Rayner, Wes Streeting, visibly involved in a group called labour against transphobia - which hasn't clarified what this means. Various female MPs publishing articles that add to the issue by comparing anyone challenging trans rights to those challenging gay rights (clue both anti-gay marriage and trans lobbies want others to live according to their beliefs). And a 'Women's and equalities commission' review of the issue reviewing evidence actively collected from only one side of the rights issues, much of which comes from exactly the above pressure groups. And uncritically reviewed, with concerns being dismissed as 'purported feminists' and women concerned being deleted from Facebook.

I get that many MPs will have missed the women's rights issues. We all did. But this is not the way to deal with it. And is directly contributing to cases like this.

Sorry meant deleted from twitter (MPs pages) no idea about Facebook.

What a good post Everyonematters
The silencing with threats of transphobia does nobody any good. Where children are concerned, it's dangerous.

It’s vwry male/Trump politics though. Shout loud, shout loud and make threats. Women are the first targets.

I love that our young people are becoming critical of gender stereotypes.

I love that they can express themselves.
I love that being gay is becoming normal.

Why say that rather than just wearing the clothes and behaving the way that make you happy you have to alter yourself in a fundamental way.

Oh, and lesbians can be petite and feminine! Some even wear heal!

And men with dresses on think they are a woman because they wear high heels, make up and swing their handbag in a girly way

Transphobia as a term is the same as Islamophobia, neither mean what they say.

Most "Islamophobic" people are really just racists, if Islam was not seen as a brown skinned religion and didn't have a dress code most "Islamophobes" would have no issue with it. Likewise when I criticise the religion and the codes enforced upon women I do it as a human not as someone who particularly hates Muslims and so accusations of "islamophobia" are unjustified and are merely used to silence.

With transphobia aside from the few violent and nasty males who actively hate trans women most of the label is given to women who recognise biology and understand that trans women are men.

Pleasedontgoadthetoad a dr would probably need to examine a patient to see if there were any indicators of intersex conditions present, along with blood tests for hormone levels, before prescribing hormone treatments.
I am not an HCP though.

I'm sure it would have been done with the usual amount of sensitivity.

I love that our young people are becoming critical of gender stereotypes

I see it the opposite way.
If you're not "conventionally" girly, you're not a proper female thus you must be a man.
If you want to wear makeup, you must be female. No you CAN be a man who wears makeup.
It's reinforcing stereotypes

Indeed.

It’s not that they don’t want people in boxes; on the contrary, they love the boxes, but they want them smaller, more numerous and seemingly more restrictive.

I'm very confused over this form for giving children puberty blockers, why is it necessary?

About four years ago a friend's son came out as transfemale. The friend was amazing with him, she accepted how he felt and they began to take things in baby steps. He continued using male pronouns, but changed his first name, just to try out different names he might like. That was about a year. After about a year plus they started using female pronouns. She began therapy to make sure she was positive that this was really what she wanted to do (there was absolutely no physical therapy/changes). She is now an adult and they have finally begun the chemical therapy. She is a happy confident person and has never been suicidal. What she really needed during those years was support that she was being accepted no matter what, and allowed to work through her feelings etc in a gradual process. Her mum did this for her. There didn't need to be any hormones, puberty blockers etc in order for her to find her way to becoming the person that she wanted to be. No hysteria, and her mum did not use her daughter's journey to gain fame or pats on the back.

And they would be considered transphobic, bigots, truscum, etc etc now. There is no room for measured, thoughtful action in trans ideology.

saladdays66 You're right, mental health services are crap, funding for them is abysmal, and everyone deserves better, including dysphoric kids. Mental health services being crap is absolutely no reason why a dysphoric child should be given hormones without therapy. Even without getting into how risky and dangerous hormone therapy is, pretty much all the research on trans health shows that medical transition without therapy has very poor results and some shows higher rates of poor mental health and higher suicide rates afterwards without therapy. We have to stop the message that hormones are the magic saviours, they are medications that carry a lot of risks with very little research into their long-term use. We should encourage small steps, the least needed to get to a goal of well-being.

I mean, seriously, menopausal women - even those who get premature menopause in their 20s - are meant to have a max of 5 years on hormone therapy due to the increased health risks, some of these kids will max that at higher doses before hitting adulthood. We have people buying this online with no oversight. This is dangerous and putting lives at risk and parents are being convinced by loud groups that this is the only way when we have so much research that not only isn't it, but hormones by themselves are putting those vulnerable kids at even more risk. Dysphoric kids deserve better, parents going through this minefield deserve better.

Well DD2(18) is slight and feminine, loves clothes and make up. She's obviously faking this lesbian thing isn't she, along with her very similar girlfriend?

I can't believe the Guardian would even print that woman's ridiculous statement about big muscular women being lesbians, without at least qualifying it in some way.

Shame on the guardian (again).

Someone up thread said you should encourage a child to conform to fit in. I strongly disagree, why not encourage a child to be themselves & boost their self esteem while helping them find a different group to socialise with. E.g. a sports club, music club, a coding club, scouts/guides anything that they had an interest in.

The couple of TV programmes I've watched about this heavily feature single mothers with children who have little contact with their fathers. Most of the articles I've read are mothers on their own with children.

I do wonder if the mother being socially isolated is a factor in all of this.

I'm not blaming single mothers at all by the way, but I can see how trans support forums can seem like a lifeline when you are struggling with your child and you don't know why.

This is interesting. I am a lone parent, DS has no contact with his father. At around age 5-8 DS struggled with his gender identity. Even before his Dad left he liked dolls and cooking and drawing and hated football and noisy games.

When he started school he enjoyed playing with the girls more because their games were more enjoyable to him. He started to think this meant he should be a girl and used to say so. When we went clothes shopping I used to simply ask which clothes he wanted. He always gravitated to the boys section, but does love the few pink and purple t-shirts we've found in there. As an infant he liked girly accessories and sparkly shoes but never wanted a dress or any form of girls clothes. He didn't have his body. He was as obsessed with his willy as any little boy.

As he matured I was able to explain to him that being arty and nurturing and liking cooking were not inherently 'female' things. I showed him Jamie Oliver programmes, Saturday kitchen etc and made it clear men cooked. We looked up male artists from Van Gogh to Banksy.

Gradually he accepted that he might not be like the other boys at school, but it didn't mean he had to be a girl.

Last year, when that No More Boys And Girls (with its insanely provocative title) was on BBC2, I let him stay up and watch (He was 10). It gave him real insight into gender stereotyping, particularly amongst kids.

He's 11 now, and into gender equality. He's still friends with girls, but he's also friends with boys now and he points out they may not all like football, but they all like zombies, so it's cool. Family used to think he'd be gay, but I've had to set the internet filter to max strength to stop him googling boobs. It was a phase.

As a PP said, DS also has ASD and part of his phase was because he didn't fit in, plus having rigid self constructed rules around gender roles. Thankfully as a feminist and scientist (who is often assumed to be a raging lezza) I've been able to get him to change his view and realise he can be a boy and like what he does, it's feeling distress, anger and hatred over his body that would be a bigger worry, but he likes his body, he is excited for his voice to break.

When he first mentioned all this, I went on Mermaids website. It scared me. It seemed like there was no other opinion except my son WAS trans. I looked up the NHS criteria and he failed the first criteria (distress or hatred about his body).

I do know trans and nb people. Interestingly they all have ASD. I know one MtF, one FtM and two non binary (one who was transitioning FtM but was in an abusive relationship and groomed to do it. Now they are away from that they have had a mastectomy, but halted hormone therapy in order to get pregnant. I am fully supportive of ADULTS doing what they need to make themselves happy, particularly as most of them have suffeed MH issues for years and have finally after years of counselling come to the realisation they are trans, but I worry about giving children drugs without adequate counselling.

It seems extremely unethical to give drugs as potent as these without face to face sessions, counselling and yes, a physical exam, even if it's just bloods/hr/bp. When I took immunosuppressant drugs for my transplant, I had to have extremely regular monitoring of my heart, bp, blood sugar and liver and kidney function. Puberty suppressants are just as powerful - they're also shutting down a while system of the body just like immunosuppressants.

I think the NHS was just completely unprepared for transgendetism. It rumbled along for 50 odd years at the same pace, but has suddenly picked up the momentum of a freight train andexploded overnight. It's cool, it's mainstream now and the general media is publishing articles like this that tell parents if their child is a bit different in any way they could be teams and get to a clinic quick! The NHS just can't cope, which gives organisations such as Mermaids or this Dr carte blanche to become the self-appointed experts in the situation when they come from an almost evangelical standpoint.

@TheRebel

@mirime obviously in a perfect world there would be no bullying but in real life sometimes it’s easier to just go along with everyone else, especially for the things that aren’t important like wearing makeup, than deliberately making yourself ‘different’ and attracting bullies.

I'd have been bullied if I had worn make up as I would never have given myself that ridiculous orange face that girls seem to like. If I'd tried to fit in I'd have done it wrong and continued to be a target. It's not easy fitting in if it doesn't come naturally to you.

I think the prominence of women commenting is because women parent children more, popchyck

I am a single mum to two children, a boy and a girl, my DS is on the autistic spectrum (maybe there is also a predominance of single mothers of ASD kids too?), he is a very physically active, boisterous, some times way too rough boy. He doesn’t struggle with being a boy in an otherwise female household and I would not be thinking he was trans if he did.

I don’t know, there may be a valid point in what you are saying, but it would need a full data analysis of all the GIC referrals and consultations to hold any weight. Otherwise it’s anecdotal and yes, potentially upsetting if thrown about as a serious factor. I get that you don’t mean to offend and there are other posters who engage more positively than me with the suggestion. But if it is the case that single mothers are more vulnerable to Mermaids, then I would be utterly furious because being a single parent is hard enough.

I do think, when people get a handle in your life, and give advice, solicited or otherwise, then if you are not very confident, then you can question yourself and this can be harmful. And Mermaids seem to be offering advice which is harmful, and fully endorsed by the government.

I do agree with you Emy.

It does seem that women generally join chat forums in order to seek advice outside the circle of family and friends for issues surrounding their children more than men do. Mumsnet is huge for example, there is no real equivalent for dads in the UK.

And of course these chat forums can be a good thing. But they are also unregulated, anyone can post any old crap on there and it is there for everyone to see. Anyone can proclaim to be an expert on something.

And if you do have an unhappy gender non-conforming child and happen across a site online that seems to be really supportive with other members in the same boat then I'll bet you are so relieved, particularly if you don't have much real life support to rely on.

I suspect it would be all too easy to get sucked in, particularly when self-proclaimed experts seem to offer you a solution to your child's unhappiness. Which is all that you want.

I really feel for any parent in that situation.

I think children are getting generally very confused these days in an effort to be politically correct we are teaching 5 year olds about how everything is ok. As unpopular as this is kids need certainty and a bit of black and white. Where it then becomes very clear this doesn’t fit then that child should seek help