AIBU to think this is child abuse? (trans related)

[pisacake]

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/feb/10/raising-a-non-binary-child-as-long-as-one-of-the-side-effects-wasnt-death-it-was-the-right-way

Basically 14yo daughter came out first as lesbian, then as a boy shortly after that. She didn't want to be examined by NHS gender clinic she was referred by trans-child charity to private 'trans-your-child-by-post' GP gendergp.co.uk/.

Said Dr. sent puberty blockers, then 3 months later testosterone gel, but had second thoughts, stopping the T-gel, and remaining on the puberty blockers. Now her mum says 'It will be 18 months before they can even be referred for adult surgery. '

AIBU to think that this is horrific child abuse and that these medications should not even be an option for children under the age of 18, confused about their sexuality?

Dad left when she was a toddler, mum clearly marked her out as 'different' for not being girly enough and she was then bullied at school - comes out as a lesbian and then a boy and then non binary and we're all supposed to believe this is a real thing and not a mental health issue. Come ON people! I'm not playing this bullshit game.

As for this:

All of you criticising the mum and doctors here, what would you do if your child hated themselves and desperately wanted to change? If your dc was threatening suicide?

If my child hated their body I would get them the mental health help they needed. For example, if my daughter thought she was fat and hated her body I would help her to accept her body type and to get counselling and support. I would not help an anorexic child to go on a diet or get her diet pills by post.

Is there any proper peer reviewed evidence that this medication and surgery helps? Any solid diagnostic criteria?

Around 13, Caleb’s female friends began to wear makeup, dresses and high heels. Caleb’s attitude was very much ‘No thanks, not for me.’” As the friendship group began to change and break down, Caleb didn’t conform. This is when the abuse on social media began – “teenage stuff on the one hand, but heartbreaking on the other, as it made Caleb so unhappy,”

Yes, that's imo an issue.

That we still have These rigid - sometimes even more rigid imo - gender norms.

But instead of educating children about sex roles we focus on ... genden non-conforming children being trans.

I mean, it "fixes" everything. Women or men that are unhappy with these assigned roles aren't opressed by society's sex roles. They're simply trans!!

Caleb began to sob. They couldn’t bear to look at themself in the shower, let alone strip naked for a stranger. They said, ‘Mum, please, I can’t do it,’ so we walked away. I was furious the system would force young people with such severe gender dysphoria to undergo such an exam.”

I mean... What happened to this child?! It seems obvious to me that gender / sex wasn't the only issue.

Psychologial support would have been necessary. Well, actually before that, when this teenager started to self-harm. But oh no, let's just focus on gender / being trans.

It's a miracle cure.

'I knew the risks', says the mother.

I understand that their have been no long term studies of the effects of puberty blockers on brain development in children (adverse effects on IQ observed in adults), but that known side effects include osteoporosis and fertility problems.

Transgender children may have higher suicide attempts but shouldn't these be statistically evaluated not against a cohort of their age peers but against other teenagers with serious mental health problems including depression and anorexia (given that dysphoria is a mental illness).

My daughter is coming home from school with many negative messages from the boys about being female. She's being told at 6 she shouldn't do Karate because she's a girl. I wholeheartedly wish young women could have more positive role models of gender non-conforming women and with that, far, far more positive messages around lesbian women.

I do wish they’d stop calling these bloody drugs “puberty blockers”. The effects of these drugs are far more severe than this implies, as I know after spending two years on one, and still suffering from the effects nearly a decade on. The thought of giving it to a child is unthinkable.

she wasn't only given puberty blockers, she was put on testosterone like an East German shot putter.

"Most of the women can't have children, the uterus is damaged, there are men with cancer, problems with the heart, difficulties with the bones in the body. For me, I don't have children and that is a big sadness."

"A trio of athletes who were doped under the regime are known to have died prematurely in their forties, while Heidi Krieger the European shot put champion in 1986 is now Andreas, having undergone a gender transformation partly as a consequence of the physical side effects of the drugs."

"She says 70% of her former fellow athletes have psychological problems "

The dosages these children are on are HIGHER than those that fucked up the Eastern European athletes, killed Flo Jo, etc.

It's Frankenstein's medicine.

If you had a teenager presenting with anorexia, who was threatening to kill themselves if they put on weight, would the treatment be:

To tell them 'yes, you are a fat cow, keep starving yourself so you don't put on any weight'

Or

To give them therapy to try and accept and be comfortable with their body in its healthy state?

I am also so uncomfortable with all this talk of suicide amongst trans teenagers. It's not backed up with real facts and also goes against the Samaritans advice about reporting on suicide. It's a is well known phenomenon that talking about suicide amongst a specific group can increase the risk of someone committing suicide in that group. And boy is suicide talked about a lot in the trans community. I read an interesting article about a rise in suicides after it was reported that Robin Williams had killed himself.

I think for many we read in the media it is as much about the parents as it is about their children

Your child’s life/struggles are their not yours to gain attention from

If you are going to share your families story (which can be helpful) at least do it anonymously and protect their privacy

@TammySwansonTwo
May I ask about these effects?

I'm currently pregnant and I'm actually really concerned about this... "trend".

The article referred uncritically to the finding that 40% of trans people attempt suicide. This figure is from on a survey commissioned by several trans organisations that was carried out in the UK and Ireland over a online over a three month period in 2012 and completed by 106 people. The survey’s findings are available on the websites of the commissioning organisations. It has not been peer reviewed and published in a recognised journal. This may be because the methodology is very poor and therefore we cannot accept the findings uncritically. A brief analysis reveals the following:
With 106 respondents it is a tiny sample if the demographic of 1% of the population having gender identity issues is accepted. For example, the estimated population of trans people in the UK alone would be @600,000, according to trans organisation figures.
Surveys are also notorious for the self selected nature of the sample. People completing surveys often differ from the target population in important respects. For example, they are motivated (for whatever reason) to complete the survey. Those who have good mental health may not be as motivated to complete a survey as they are occupied with other things. Self selected respondents are also often more compliant than the target population (hence agreeing to and taking the time to do the survey) and may therefore be more easily influenced by leading questions and confirmation bias.
The 1 - 3 hours that it took to complete the survey may have excluded those with less time, such as those who are fully employed. As there is an association between good mental health and employment it is possible that it has unwittingly excluded those with good mental health.
The trans community is also quite a tight knit one. Trans people who are in touch with organisations such as TransBareAll often know each other and it is possible that many (if not all) respondents were known to each other and shared norms and values as well as being exposed to the same kind of information. This can also lead to a biased sample.
The statement that 81% of those who had started or completed transition had thought about or attempted suicide before beginning transition is not helpful to policymakers or those working with trans people either. There are no statistics given for how many are no longer suicidal after transition and there are no raw numbers, so this figure could be based as on a few as 5 people. There are actually very few peer reviewed and high quality studies that look at outcome following transition, so it is of little surprise that figures are not quoted.
The often stated conclusion that trans people need more access to treatment because of their risk of suicide is not supported either. It is unclear how many of the respondents to this survey have completed or begun gender reassignment. It is entirely possible that people who have access to these interventions remain suicidal, in which case what trans people need is support for their mental health, not earlier or more aggressive medical and surgical intervention.

And if a child is getting bullied because of the way that they present at school, then the solution is to get schools to sort out their bullying policies and get parents to educate their kids about people who don't conform to ridiculous, harmful stereotypes.

Not try and change the sex of the person being bullied.

Mind you, the fact that the Mum thought her daughter would probably turn out to be a lesbian because she was big and muscly as a child says a lot as well.

around the age of 13 Caleb's female friends started wearing makeup, dresses and high heels

Is that anyone on here's experience of being 13 themselves, or of their DD being 13?

A bit of experimental make up yes, but dresses and high heels at 13?

That's not been my experience nor my DD's. DD is not quite 13 but second youngest in her class, and all the girls wear jeans and trainers pretty much all the time, as do the majority of the mid and older teen girls locally.

Sounds as though the environment was the problem!

Caleb began to sob. They couldn’t bear to look at themself in the shower, let alone strip naked for a stranger. They said, ‘Mum, please, I can’t do it,’ so we walked away. I was furious the system would force young people with such severe gender dysphoria to undergo such an exam.”

Are people made to strip naked? The NHS is very concerned with treating every patient with dignity. There is always a gown, or big paper
towels to cover up during an exam.

Now, of course I wasn't there, but I would be very surprised if the health professional didn't do everything possible to preserve Caleb's privacy and dignity.

Chardonnay, presumably that is propaganda straight outta Mermaids. The journalist is Mermaids' pet friendly journo. www.jennasloan.co.uk/2016/04/25/transgender-charity-mermaids-relaunch-website/

Christ Almighty.

She was 'a big, muscly child' who wasn't 'feminine at all....perhaps I was going to have a gay daughter'

I despair. How many more times does it have to be said? I was a non-'girly' girl who hated frilly pink things and was taller and bigger than my dainty little peers. But thank God my parents didn’t decide that meant I was a boy and ought to be forcibly placed on a regime of horrific drugs that would fuck my body up beyond repair.

I peaked a long time ago now but still find myself asking daily - how in hell did we end up in this place?

I don't believe half of this story. I don't believe the way that Caleb was treated by medical professionals or by their schoolfriends. It's propaganda.

And if you want to get prescribed blockers, it's very easy to find out just how to bypass the NHS: www.google.co.uk/search?q=how+to+get+puberty+blockers+uk&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=kb1-WvifKcuLgAbIybOAAg

This is the 3rd link that google throws up: Transit.

^"If you are of puberty age, and you’re trans, it’s vital that you start on puberty blockers immediately. Go on the NHS to get them, but be warned: you will be severely delayed in starting it, because of underfunding and understaffing of transgender services on the NHS. You can blame our right-wing government for that, for not having the foresight to provide adequate additional funding for the NHS in the UK.

NHS guidelines say that children of puberty age should be given puberty blockers until they are 16, at which point they can also take estradiol or testosterone, depending on which way they’re going.
PARENTS: this is IMPORTANT!

You need to make sure that your child DOES NOT go through their genetical puberty, the one that their body is programmed to go through. It makes most trans people depressed, or worse, suicidal, especially as they get older. If you love your child, you will let them take hormones, including hormone blockers, as early as physically possible.

The NHS is SLOW and your child will likely go through most of their puberty by the time they get blockers. You can purchase blockers on the internet. Check out our self-medication HRT page which shows how to purchase hormone blockers on the internet - NOTE: most private trans care providers won’t see children, so you’re stuck with the NHS, and you’re stuck with self-medication.

DO NOT DELAY. You have a moral responsibility as a parent to ensure the safety and happiness of your child as they grow up. If you allow them to go through their genitical puberty, you could very well end up with a dead child. Transgender people under the age of 25 are 5x more likely to commit suicide than their non-transgender peers, according to official statistics. This is directly related to trauma brought about by their puberty (if they went through their self-mutilating genetical puberty), and abuse that they might receive because of that, especially if they start not passing as their desired gender as a result.

We are deadly serious about this. No child should ever be forced to suffer body dysphoria."^

I think it's one of the most terrifying sites on the internet. I bet Caleb and her mum read it.

It's powerful language, "strip naked".

I work in an (all girls) school and a 14 year old girl has just transitioned - taken a male name, wearing a different uniform and school have to complete accommodate (which is absolutely fine...). I have since found out that this student is being medicated for his transition. However, the parents are not on board at all, they don't want this and refuse to refer to him as 'he' or his new chosen name. Legally, we had to consult lawyers with this, we have to go by the choice of the child no matter what age they are. Parents' evening is coming up, I am not looking forward to that appointment...

Sterilising your non gender conforming child is child abuse, just as starving your anorexic child, giving them liposuction or taunting them with food would be child abuse.

Re read the article. So what does Caleb actually believe they are gender/sex wise?

And as for her being a stocky, muscly girl, therefore probably gay - really?

I didn't start dressing 'girly' outside of school (we had to wear skirts) until I was about 16. I hated makeup still do and feel like a doll when i wear it. I do my nails sometimes, when I cba. At 30 I still rarely do dresses & would much rather wear jogs or leggings & boots. I'm also not the stereotype of girl...i'm broad, was muscly as a kid & had short hair as soon as I could!

I wonder what has changed? My mother never once thought i was gay, or trying to be a lad. She moaned at me cos she wanted me to wear dresses sometimes but that was it. We have gone so far backwards it is unreal...whatever happened to kids being kids 😔 I firmly believe that this mother has influenced this confusion within her child, we all know exactly how attitude & behaviour - even if we as parents think we're hiding it - can impact directly on our kids

But 14 and ‘their choice’. It’s too young to know what the hell is going on - just not emotionally mature to make these decisions.

@therealposieparker my thoughts exactly!!!