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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Calling out to nurses and student nurses

248 replies

Livinglifepeachy · 09/02/2018 20:30

Hey

I am due to start a nursing degree end of this month but I can't stop feeling like nurses are being taken for a mug and cheap labourers to put it bluntly. Here are the reasons why...

We have to pay over 9k per year in tuition fees and we don't get to choose our placements at the NHS. We don't get paid to be on placement yet apprentices do. Our placement equals to 2700hrs in three years. From what I have heard from second year nurses and third year nurses is that whilst your on placement your mentor usually doesn't have a lot of time for you. We can't actually hold a non flexible jobs because placements can be any day of the week so only when you are not on placement you can achieve to work weekends.

Can someone please share your thoughts on this matter are my feelings justifiable or is there something I have missed?

OP posts:
PancakeInMaBelly · 10/02/2018 13:40

Nurse associates and Nurse apprentices are different, for those getting them confused

No theyre not, you can take the apprentiship at level 5 or 6. The level 5 one = what we know as the associate role. This is also being enveloped my the apprentiship program

PancakeInMaBelly · 10/02/2018 13:42

In my experience, they are usually just as good as most band 5s.
Initial research says otherwisd. Safety outcomes are worse if you're under the care of a band 4. Some are great individuals. But it is not as safe

PancakeInMaBelly · 10/02/2018 13:47

There is also a progression route from associate to level 6 apprentise so they are very much part of the same thing

Original poster
Livinglifepeachy · 10/02/2018 13:47

I've just considered Going abroad 20mins ago seen as its not funded and nurses being thinly spread at dangerous level. The chances of me nonetheless are slim to go abroad as I have commitments here.

OP posts:
RoomOfRequirement · 10/02/2018 13:50

@Pancake they are absolutely different. Nurse associates when qualified will be Band 4. Nurse apprentices when qualified will be Band 5. The nurse apprentices will have 4 years study.

My trust has both (or rather, are currently interviewing for Nurse apprentices to start this year). They are different roles.

RoomOfRequirement · 10/02/2018 13:51

@Pancake their being a progression a person can take from one to the other does not make them the same.

PancakeInMaBelly · 10/02/2018 13:54

They are different levels of the same thing going forward room

And FWIW the traditional nursing degree is an honours degree. "Level 6" spans non degree qualifications, non honours degrees & honours degrees.

A level 6 non honours degree is not at all equivalent to an honours degree even though theyre both level 6.

This wont matter in terms of registration as band 5, but may cause progression issues.

ShapelyBingoWing · 10/02/2018 13:55

Oh and the person who said that sometimes people did a course because the bursary was paid is absolutely right - obviously not all of them - but there are people who are very open about this.

I believe you may have gotten the wrong end of the stick here. Many mature students, myself included, are able to do the degree because of the bursary. It being removed has lead to potential students not being able to apply due to the enormous debt they'll accrue and how that debt will fit into their lives once qualified.

But nursing is a full time degree. And often after working a full week on the wards, I'll come home and work on assignments or research or look up proper technique for a clinical skill, meaning I'm actually 'working' far more than full time hours for far less than full time minimum wage 'pay'. I don't get a summer holiday, just 5 weeks decided for me spread through the year and 1 week I can pick myself that must be taken all at once. Other unis have better holidays but an enormous volume of work crammed into their working weeks and end up studying in their holidays anyway. If it was about the money, I assure you, we wouldn't do it. The workload far exceeds the payout.

The bursary simply made it possible for those of us who wanted to be nurses to make that change. I imagine that the instances of it drawing in people who'd never wanted to be nurses are very few and far between. And that any student for whom that is the case would have a very serious rethink once they realised how heavy the workload is.

JustVent · 10/02/2018 13:55

I agree with everything you said dailyshite

PancakeInMaBelly · 10/02/2018 13:56

Yeah I totally did it because of the bursary!

In that I couldnt have managed it without the bursary!

PancakeInMaBelly · 10/02/2018 13:59

@Pancake their being a progression a person can take from one to the other does not make them the same.

No, but in this case, they are just different levels of the same program. One is level 5 the other is level 6.

Band 4 training used to stand alone, but it wont be going forward, it's all being tied in as different levels of the same program

Original poster
Livinglifepeachy · 10/02/2018 13:59

Amen bingo

OP posts:
PancakeInMaBelly · 10/02/2018 14:00

They wont be at all trusts right now, but they will be as its fully rolled out

Original poster
Livinglifepeachy · 10/02/2018 14:01

The uni route lands you at band 5

OP posts:
JustVent · 10/02/2018 14:03

Tbh op you don’t sound like you’re heart is in it.

It took my 3 attempts to get onto my course, I’d have walked over hot coals to get onto the course. I’m a year in and I absolutely love it, I have to juggle uni, placement, two kids and a job. It’s fucking hard, it’s very stressful and it’s brilliant.

x2boys · 10/02/2018 14:04

I have been out of nursing for a few years , the assistant practioners in my trust (mental health ) trained in a specific area throughout their training so they didn't get the same level of experience in different areas as student nurses , regarding assistant practioners , nurse apprentices and registered nurses are they all able to do the role of a typical staff nurse , ie medication rounds , ward rounds ,named nurse , clinical stuff ?

PancakeInMaBelly · 10/02/2018 14:06

Just, you can simultaniously love nursing & hate the system.

If you're not even a little bit angry about whats going on, then it sounds like its you and not the OP who doesnt really understand what theyre getting into!

JustVent · 10/02/2018 14:08

I was talking about the nursing degree that I am doing and the OP is about do.

You are talking about something linked. I was talking about the current degree...

PancakeInMaBelly · 10/02/2018 14:08

x2boys, band 4s CAN do meds, yes, BUT they are not registered so the registered nurse in charge of them is ultimately responsible if they make a mistake! Scary!

PancakeInMaBelly · 10/02/2018 14:12

Nurse associates take their own patients. Admit, discharge, wound care, care plans & care rounding, speak to relatives, go on ward rounds etc.

They CAN be signed off to do more (meds etc) but some managers resist this.

Their experience as a 4 is limited to their department. They are fine at the routine stuff but not as quick to pick up on the odd or unusual as they only know what theyve seen IYKWIM.

PancakeInMaBelly · 10/02/2018 14:13

You are talking about something linked. I was talking about the current degree... so was I in my reply to you...

Original poster
Livinglifepeachy · 10/02/2018 14:13

Justvent do you pay for your tuition fee?

OP posts:
x2boys · 10/02/2018 14:14

That sounds scary ! Mistakes can happen easily but I wouldn't want to be accountable for someone else's mistakes ? Do the band fours have the same level of training regarding medication ie medicine management course etc , I remember them phasing enrolled nurses out most were grade Cor D with staff nurses being Grade D orE what goes around comes around .

70isaLimitNotaTarget · 10/02/2018 14:15

Chiropody for example: it's a nice 9-5 self employed living with decent money often doing things that band 5 nurses do but for much more money and less stress

Seriously?

I'm a Podiatrist .(NHS) we aren't Chiropodists (name changed years ago) . I know a few Private Practioners , more NHS.
Stress by the bloody shedload and getting more

PancakeInMaBelly · 10/02/2018 14:19

"what goes around comes around"

Yeah, there are a lot of misconceptions about enrolled vs uni nurses

Such as the idea that non academic nurses are better at "caring"
The research and evidence shows that basic care and compassion improves when nurses are degree trained but people have rose tinted glasses about the old enrolled nurses, many of whom actually cared more about routine than individuals!