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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Calling out to nurses and student nurses

248 replies

Livinglifepeachy · 09/02/2018 20:30

Hey

I am due to start a nursing degree end of this month but I can't stop feeling like nurses are being taken for a mug and cheap labourers to put it bluntly. Here are the reasons why...

We have to pay over 9k per year in tuition fees and we don't get to choose our placements at the NHS. We don't get paid to be on placement yet apprentices do. Our placement equals to 2700hrs in three years. From what I have heard from second year nurses and third year nurses is that whilst your on placement your mentor usually doesn't have a lot of time for you. We can't actually hold a non flexible jobs because placements can be any day of the week so only when you are not on placement you can achieve to work weekends.

Can someone please share your thoughts on this matter are my feelings justifiable or is there something I have missed?

OP posts:
TheFairyCaravan · 09/02/2018 22:15

So you’re saying he’s been lucky for all of his placements Pancake? How do you explain the fact that the other students on the placements, with the same mentor who haven’t had the same experience?

iniquity · 09/02/2018 22:17

My experience of being a student nurse... 3 years of being a hospital skivvy and then when you do qualify you are thrown in the deep end and wish you hadn't been made to spend 3 years emptying bedpans!

Flippidyflap · 09/02/2018 22:23

Are you an HCA in a hospital setting? At our Trust there are schemes in which HCA’s have the opportunity to apply for their training and be paid their normal wage throughout. They have to agree to work at the hospital once training has been completed and it’s proved really successful for those HCA’s who want to progress.

It would be worth speaking to your line manager to find out what opportunities are available to you. In terms of support whilst you’re a student, it depends on the area and staff as to how well supported you are. Your attitude will also impact on this but if you’re keen and willing to learn you’ll get the best experience available.

ferociousindependentandsquishy · 09/02/2018 22:25

Ok I'm going to go against the grain a bit. I'm a student healthcare professional. I started after the bursary so pay for my training. I resented the bursary because I felt it meant people that were not committed to a caring profession, got paid to train and their care and priorities were not as good as those that did it for the love of it. Given the current climate of job insecurity, high unemployment and redundancies, a paid university course with an almost guaranteed career was attractive for the wrong reasons in some cases. I was only reading a thread on here recently where someone didn't really want to teach but the course was bursary funded so thought it was a good option.

You are paying for the expertise of NHS staff to train you to a high standard of care. You are paying to use NHS facilities to learn your profession. You're not tied to the NHS after so they owe you nothing.
I really do wish you well with your training, this was your life choice, enjoy it and grab every opportunity to care and to learn

ShapelyBingoWing · 09/02/2018 22:30

So you’re saying he’s been lucky for all of his placements Pancake? How do you explain the fact that the other students on the placements, with the same mentor who haven’t had the same experience?

This isn't a reflection on your DS, but he has been lucky. I've had very good relationships with all my mentors so far, even those who have put me in awkward positions. Some of my cohort however have been treated very unfairly by some of the same people despite being just as proactive and driven as I am. Hopefully your DS has the self awareness that even he would tell you there's a big element of luck involved. Generally the students who don't have that awareness are the ones who gain a pretty poor reputation.

expertonnothing · 09/02/2018 22:31

Can I take this opportunity to tell you all how wonderful I think nurses are Flowers

I recently had the misfortune of a close relative in intensive care and the nurses were angels. I have cried many times at their kindness and compassion during the hardest of times. Good luck to all of you. If I could pay a bit extra tax and it was guaranteed to go towards your tuition I would

PancakeInMaBelly · 09/02/2018 22:34

So you’re saying he’s been lucky for all of his placements Pancake?
Yes. No amount of get up and go will get you clinical skills time with your mentor if you're only ever rotaed in with them in the days when they are in charge!

"How do you explain the fact that the other students on the placements, with the same mentor who haven’t had the same experience?"
See above: Rota luck
If he's luckily enough to be regularly on with them on the days when they have a bay and don't have to take charge, then whoever he's sharing that mentor with us going to have the rubbish luck of being on with them on the days when they'll have no time for them.

Our student rotas are done by sister BEFORE they get to show their winning personalities ever set foot on the ward.
Two students with the SAME mentor, but rotaed differently, will have totally different experiences through no fault of their own.

As I said, the sign off mentors are also "take charge" band 5s and 6s. If they happen to be in charge on the days you're working with them they can't be behind curtains supervising your clinical skills etc

PancakeInMaBelly · 09/02/2018 22:38

I resented the bursary because I felt it meant people that were not committed to a caring profession, got paid to train and their care and priorities were not as good as those that did it for the love of ityuck

BOLLOCKS, because:

A. The bursary paid less than a minimum wage job, so people weren't doing it for the money! ridiculous

B. With the bursary there was more competition for uni places than there are now, so candidates had to really demonstrate that they were in it "for the right reasons"

Appuskidu · 09/02/2018 22:43

I resented the bursary because I felt it meant people that were not committed to a caring profession, got paid to train and their care and priorities were not as good as those that did it for the love of it

Really-wtf?!

PancakeInMaBelly · 09/02/2018 22:43

P.s. thefairycaravan when a student is on when their mentor is on duty but in charge/bleep holder, they will usually be allocated to a bay nurse. This may be a newly qualified nurse! Students have NO say on this on many wards.

In other wards you can be lucky and you can whip out diaries to sync with your mentor so that you can make the most of your time.

Not on many busy wards though

Original poster
Livinglifepeachy · 09/02/2018 22:45

Fruitcider there are so many placements and so many different settings you say it's selected to make you an all rounder but I can 100% name you more 8 different departments where nurses work! So if I have a genuine interest in icu or a and e why is it wrong to be allowed to go and do a placement there especially if I have paid 9k? Oh wait it's because all students are allocated based on luck of the draw and whatever the NHS means.
I think you need to reread my posts because I am not looking at it as a chore. It's common sense when you go to a shop and buy crunchy nut you don't expect coco pops to pop out. So why is it bad to want to choose something your interested in learning?

OP posts:
Doobydoo · 09/02/2018 22:45

I had a bursary..but still had to work it was about 350 a month. The last 6 months I was on the ward rota full time working days and nights etc.....and lived in nursing accomodation which was not free. It is difficult either way.

ichifanny · 09/02/2018 22:47

I don’t think it’s true , students are treated pretty well and don’t count in wars numbers .

Doobydoo · 09/02/2018 22:49

Concur re putting the effort in. I have mentored student nurses and they vary massively. Some expect to have their hands held all the time, others charge in and others somehow seem to strike a balance.

Hohofortherobbers · 09/02/2018 22:51

I'm a nurse and I love it. Can't think what else would be so satisfying. BUT it horrifies me that student nurses have to pay tuition fees now, that would have changed my decision way back. Even all the job satisfaction i have wouldn't have persuaded me to get in that much debt!

Aliasgrace1 · 09/02/2018 22:52

I'm 5 months off qualifying, I absolutely love it! Yes I'm skint, plus I have a mortgage and two kids but it's so worth it. I'd be much better off with student loans, my bursary is peanuts.

All my mentors have been amazing nurses and have made time for me, however, don't expect to be doing all the nursing jobs, especially in your first year. It's only this year that I've been running my own bay of patients as the nurse.

Doobydoo · 09/02/2018 22:52

Agree with others. As a nurse you do not have as much time to sit and chat/handhold. You can as a student or HCA but the paperwork takes over I am afraid.

PancakeInMaBelly · 09/02/2018 22:53

Concur re putting the effort in. I have mentored student nurses and they vary massively. Some expect to have their hands held all the time, others charge in and others somehow seem to strike a balance.

True, but even the great ones can end up with a crappy rota, with the minimum allowed time rotaed on with their mentors, and if those days end up being on with them when they're in charge/holding the bleep, and not free to supervise clinical skills and hands on care!

iniquity · 09/02/2018 22:53

Students don't count in ward numbers, until an HCA phones in sick.

PancakeInMaBelly · 09/02/2018 22:57

I've also seen students allocated mentors who have annual leave booked & who are due to go off on maternity leave.

No amount of gumption is going to compensate for that! (They do have "second mentors" but will still be getting a bum deal)

ShapelyBingoWing · 09/02/2018 22:59

I resented the bursary because I felt it meant people that were not committed to a caring profession, got paid to train and their care and priorities were not as good as those that did it for the love of it

Hmm I'm a lone parent and so get the best bursary out if anyone in my class. Still really fucking poor. And putting full time hours in for far less money than I'd get if I'd stayed in my previous job. Or pretty much any other job.

If anything, those receiving the new student loan are actually getting more money each month than I am. Maybe they're not doing it for the love of it?

SusanneLinder · 09/02/2018 22:59

Both DH and DD2 are qualified nurses. Both in Scotland so they got bursaries. Tbh the bursaries were shit, so no one did it for the money. We had a family to support and DH and I worked as Care Assistants ( mine as a 2nd job), to pay the Mortgage and Bills. I hardly saw DH for 3 years. He was either at Uni/working/Placement/ Studying. He started in Adult Branch..hated it, and did Mental Health. He got some good mentors, some awful ones. In fact he is still really friendly with one of his mentors now and that was over 10 years ago.He became a Mentor and treated his students with respect.
DD2 is 2 years qualified in Paeds. She just loves it. Yes its hard work, neither do it for the money, but sadly there are too many student nursing drop outs. If you have doubts, dont do it. If your heart isnt in it, you wont be a good nurse.

ShapelyBingoWing · 09/02/2018 23:03

I don’t think it’s true , students are treated pretty well and don’t count in wars numbers.

Nobody admits to a ward's reliance on students as we're supposed to be supernumerary. But when students are placed on a 32 bed ward with 4 qualified nurses on shift on a regular basis, I assure you, the students are being used as staff.

PancakeInMaBelly · 09/02/2018 23:11

Put it this way: you're the bleep holder on a night shift.

Ward A has one nurse, one nurse off sick, 2 hcas & a 3rd yr student nurse
Ward B has one nurse, one nurse off suck, 2 hcas and no students.

Both wards are dangerously short staffed, but equal in acuity. ONE last minute bank nurse has been found

You really not going to count that student now?

They won't have been counted in the ORIGIONAL staffing but....

Original poster
Livinglifepeachy · 09/02/2018 23:13

Shaplybingowing your bursery is completely free! You are not coming out after 3 years with a 50k debt! My issue is not the love of the job is the fact that it is unfair to not get to choose your placements and do it for free. Essentially paying to work

OP posts: