Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Calling out to nurses and student nurses

248 replies

Livinglifepeachy · 09/02/2018 20:30

Hey

I am due to start a nursing degree end of this month but I can't stop feeling like nurses are being taken for a mug and cheap labourers to put it bluntly. Here are the reasons why...

We have to pay over 9k per year in tuition fees and we don't get to choose our placements at the NHS. We don't get paid to be on placement yet apprentices do. Our placement equals to 2700hrs in three years. From what I have heard from second year nurses and third year nurses is that whilst your on placement your mentor usually doesn't have a lot of time for you. We can't actually hold a non flexible jobs because placements can be any day of the week so only when you are not on placement you can achieve to work weekends.

Can someone please share your thoughts on this matter are my feelings justifiable or is there something I have missed?

OP posts:
PancakeInMaBelly · 09/02/2018 23:17

I think ShapelyBingoWings post was more directed at the poster who thinks bursary students were just in it for the money and laughing all the way to the bank beating patients with sticks on the way...

ShapelyBingoWing · 09/02/2018 23:18

So if I have a genuine interest in icu or a and e why is it wrong to be allowed to go and do a placement there especially if I have paid 9k?

I think this has a lot to do with the need for a rounded education, but also, allowing students to pick and choose where they go will inevitably lead to huge demand on some areas and others that are devoid of students. My placement circuit covers 4 different trusts (no single trust has a good enough variety for paediatrics), 3 of which I'd never voluntarily go to as I know I want to work in the other far more specialised area. I'd never choose a community placement, but those I've done have really enriched my education. And it's also worth considering that those of us who go into this without previous health care experience simply don't know what we don't know. We don't know what we're going to love. A friend of mine was sure she wanted to work in A&E but after she was lucky enough to get a placement there, she now knows she hates it and is looking at other areas she's been placed in that she'd never have chosen herself.

Livinglifepeachy · 09/02/2018 23:20

For those who say that we are better off because we get more money per month then those on burseries.. What's stopping you from going to the bank and getting a personal loan out?

OP posts:
PancakeInMaBelly · 09/02/2018 23:22

shapelybingowings is on your side OP That post was a response to the poster who said that they support the removal of the bursary for bad maths reasons

ShapelyBingoWing · 09/02/2018 23:22

I think ShapelyBingoWings post was more directed at the poster who thinks bursary students were just in it for the money and laughing all the way to the bank beating patients with sticks on the way...

Grin ha! Yes, it was.

Livinglifepeachy · 09/02/2018 23:28

Am sorry I don't mean to offend anyone I am just becoming a bit defensive when I keep hearing posters say you lack commitment or don't want to really do nursing when I actually do really want to. I just feel it's really unfair what my year are willing to go through to be nurses and still be criticised for speaking out loud injustices towards the new measures put in place

OP posts:
ShapelyBingoWing · 09/02/2018 23:28

OP, nothing is stopping me from getting loans out. In fact, most bursaried students also have a student loan. Many take out additional personal loans overdrafts, etc. My point wasn't who's better off because simply put, I wouldn't have been able to justify going into this on the loans system. My point was to the poster who seems to think that the bursary is so generous that it manages to pull in people who don't actually want to be nurses.

ShapelyBingoWing · 09/02/2018 23:30

No apology needed Smile the loss of the bursary is a big blow.

Livinglifepeachy · 09/02/2018 23:34

Am sorry shapely I'm viewing this on my phone and it missed the previous post and then my dog tried to cuddle me and wiped everything I wrote lol 😂 I think that's a very valid point how about a first come first served basis or out of the 8 placement you get to choose maybe two or so? Best of both worlds

OP posts:
LegallyBrunet · 09/02/2018 23:34

I did half my nursing degree (child branch) and was forced to leave due to ill health. Never again. I think I've had a lucky escape. I'm studying law now and my mental health is much better for it. My mentors were unsupportive bullies who were spawned in the depths of hell itself and forced me to work night shifts that made my long term health condition worse despite Occupational Health saying I couldn't work those. We had to take on patients despite not being qualified because at one point we were so busy. My OH has been qualified 2 years and already wants out because his ward is so severely understaffed.
If it's what you really want then I'm sure you'll do it and I wish you luck.

GetOutOfMYGarden · 09/02/2018 23:40

Not a nurse OP, but you're damned right. The nurses I work with are taken for mugs. When I was in uni, I wasn't expected to give up my nights and weekends. I was in placement, and paying for the privilege, but I was able to get a saturday job, I had special selected modules to explore interests, I was truly supernumerary.

People need to stop expecting healthcare professionals to be martyrs. We're highly skilled, make life or death decisions, and we take on enormous responsibility. If tuition fees aren't being covered, wages when qualified need to be higher to compensate because it's expensive to train.

Don't get me started on professions that undermine fully qualified staff yet pay more...

ShapelyBingoWing · 09/02/2018 23:41

First come first served wouldn't work I don't think... Again, it would put those of us with no health care background at the back of the queue unless we somehow knew what we think we want to do already.

In terms of ICU/A&E/HDU... My uni have a system that states we must do at least 1 critical care placement as well as a mix of acute and community. And for our final placements next year, we're allowed to identify what we want to learn / gaps in our knowledge and the placement will be tailored to that (but we can't ever request specific placement areas, even though this one is known as our elective placement). I'm pretty sure that all unis have allocation rules and systems based on NMC guidelines. But it would be interesting to know if some manage to get a true elective placement in there somewhere.

ShapelyBingoWing · 09/02/2018 23:43

Also worth knowing, different unis have different numbers of placements. I've had 6 already and I'm only half way through. A uni that only has 6 through the full 3 years would have trouble making sure they can meet the NMC requirements in the other 5 placements if they let students pick number 6.

LegallyBrunet · 09/02/2018 23:44

@ShapelyBingoWing My OH managed to get a two week elective with the army when he was a student. He loved it

ShapelyBingoWing · 09/02/2018 23:50

I'd kill even for a 2 week one LegallyBrunet Smile I wouldn't pick the army myself but I can imagine that's a fantastic exposure as a student.

LegallyBrunet · 09/02/2018 23:55

It was @Shapely We have a medical barracks local to us and it was something they happened to offer at the time. He learnt some absolutely fantastic trauma stuff from them.

Livinglifepeachy · 10/02/2018 00:16

That's interesting and very good points I had not thought about in depth. My fiancé had nurses stab him with needles whilst training in bloods when he was in the army hopefully he will enjoy another round with me practicing lol 😂 I really have a feeling nhs will become privatised because when I did my renewal training for hca I had to go to this one day mandatory course in December and I met a quite a few nurses and all of them told me that I should do 6months with NHS and then join an agency and move also to bank nhs as apparently the pay is nearly double. If everyone shifts towards this pattern then I really do believe that privatisation is inevitable what do you think?

OP posts:
Headofthehive55 · 10/02/2018 03:37

The agency pay is only double because they can't get anyone to do it.
I've been paid double within the nhs. They wanted people everyone said no until they offered more. Forced their hand really.
I'm sad about the busary going, but I think it was a trade off when nurses started getting degrees. If you got an Rgn qualification, years ago you didn't get a degree, and the Rgn qualification didn't count for other things. Eventually nurses get degrees, it's understandable that they take away the bursary.

Headofthehive55 · 10/02/2018 03:42

Thing is, you will be able to get a job when you qualify. Lots of other students get very poorly paid jobs when they get their degree. It makes nursing look attractive. Hence the applicants and therefore no need to pay a salary to them.

RhubarbYoghurt · 10/02/2018 04:09

@speakout

I'm in Scotland. Your daughter will get the bursary but won't be able to take a student loan out on top I'm afraid. It's a standard £506 a month no more. No less.

I hope no one has given you wrong advice.

Sofabitch · 10/02/2018 04:34

When I was looking at degrees I almsot did an NHS bursary funded course (not nursing but the same funding) and the bursary amounts were not enough for me to live off, so I decided to do a non NHS funded course amd take loans. Sure I have loans now. But at least I (just about) got enough money to live during my degree.

Of course the pay off was not being able to walk into a job. Student debt doesn't bother me. I'm unlikely to ever come close to touching the 50k debt I have.

Sofabitch · 10/02/2018 04:37

That's a good point, all the student nurses I've known have done HCA bank work at their placement hospital. They only have to pick up one shift a week and get more than most students would get in bar work etc.

Ilovecoleslaw · 10/02/2018 05:08

I qualified as a staff nurse last week, and have my trust induction next week.
It has been a long, tiring three years and I know it's not going to get any easier from here.
I was lucky enough to get the bursary, but still had to take out a student loan on top of that, and also worked full time for the majority of my training. I still would have chosen nursing If I had to have paid tuition fees. I also don't need to pay my loan back until I'm earning 25k, and I start on 22k So it'll be a good few years before that's paid back.
I got a job as a bank hca within my trust, so was able to work flexibly around my placement and uni hours. I'm sure all trusts must have some type of bank, and in my trust it was super easy to apply for and get because I was a student (not much additional training needed). This also allowed me the flexibility to work in any area in my trust, which I fully took advantage of during my training, as it enabled me to see which areas I may consider working in as a staff nurse.

I've had 9 nursing placements; elderly care, orthopaedic, gastro, district nurse, practice nurse, a&e, general surgical ward, day surgery, coronary care.

We had to do one acute placement (a&e/itu/hdu) and a variety of community and hospital ones. We also got to pick our management placement (3rd year, last placement where you get signed off). As you can see, mine have been very varied and I've enjoyed every single one. For the most part, my mentors have been fantastic and found the time for me. I've only ever had trouble with one, which I subsequently changed to another mentor. Within your placements you have the opportunity to go on spokes/additional learning experiences e.g. time with resus officers, midwives, OT/PT, ASC, TVN etc, so it can be very varied and if you want to go to a specific area, you can through a spoke.
I personally don't think you should be able to pick your nursing placements, as it's essential you get a well rounded experience of many different areas. I have no intention of working in the community during my career, and wouldn't have picked them as placements if I had the choice, but I learnt valuable skills on those placements that I haven't learnt anywhere else.
It's also important to remember that when you qualify, it's very possible during a shift you will be moved from your permanent ward to one that is short staffed. If for example, nursing placements were chosen by students, they could very well only pick one or a couple of areas to work in, and therefore wouldn't have the knowledge or skills to work in a different area if need be.

Your last point about practising taking blood - most trusts don't offer the training until you're qualified due to time and the amount of people you'll be needing to practise on. So no practising till you qualify sorry!
Good luck for your training, it's not going to be easy. And I hope I've provided a little bit of insight!

Ilovecoleslaw · 10/02/2018 05:11

Back HCA work doesnt pay awful either, i did one 12.5 hour shift last week (paid for 11.5) and my pay this week was £101

Steakandchips3 · 10/02/2018 09:44

Coleslaw you might be paying it back quicker than you think if you are working unsocial hours!