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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Calling out to nurses and student nurses

248 replies

Livinglifepeachy · 09/02/2018 20:30

Hey

I am due to start a nursing degree end of this month but I can't stop feeling like nurses are being taken for a mug and cheap labourers to put it bluntly. Here are the reasons why...

We have to pay over 9k per year in tuition fees and we don't get to choose our placements at the NHS. We don't get paid to be on placement yet apprentices do. Our placement equals to 2700hrs in three years. From what I have heard from second year nurses and third year nurses is that whilst your on placement your mentor usually doesn't have a lot of time for you. We can't actually hold a non flexible jobs because placements can be any day of the week so only when you are not on placement you can achieve to work weekends.

Can someone please share your thoughts on this matter are my feelings justifiable or is there something I have missed?

OP posts:
Original poster
Livinglifepeachy · 10/02/2018 14:21

I remember whilst being in hospital I had my medication missed two times. This is what I mean by dangerous staffing levels and its the nurse that would be in trouble. The last time I was missed I just kept it quiet as I didn't want anyone to get in trouble.

OP posts:
PancakeInMaBelly · 10/02/2018 14:23

70 yes everyone in the NHS is stretched, but Chiropody (and many do use this name in their advertising) gives you better self employed options. The ones I know work privately and have a great quality of life! Our NHS podiatrist however does the work of several men and had heaps of stress, but the actual qualification opens better options IYKWIM

BaldricksTrousers · 10/02/2018 14:29

This thread is so relevant to me right now! I actually have an interview with uni this month for an adult nursing degree. I want to work in end of life care. The prospect of doing a degree is daunting to say the least. I am excited to possibly do it but also a bit nervous of the hardships....fees, full time unpaid placement wherever, etc.

Our local hospital has a 2 year nursing associates program starting in Septeber which sounds much more amenable...you get paid and no fees. But of course I'd rather have a degree at the end of it! So I have no idea what to go for, really. Assuming I do ok in my interview.

iniquity · 10/02/2018 14:37

In all honesty I think jobs like OT and physiomaybe a lot better than nursing. The other day an OT came over to tell us that they couldn't do a shower assessment on a patient because one was off sick and there would only two of them. We nurses have to do all the mess, paperwork toileting and washing patients which are doubles which just one HCA and if she is off sick we still have to do it all on our own

PancakeInMaBelly · 10/02/2018 14:42

iniquity I think nobody in the NHS is immune to the stretch and strain

BUT, there are AHPs who always double up to do home visits where district nurses always have to sole-work , which is why I would never do district nursing: our safety matters less than our colleagues who double up for safety Sad

Lifeisabeach09 · 10/02/2018 14:44

I agree with you OP.
The bursary should never been scrapped. Another insidious way to privatise.
That students should have to pay 9,000 a year plus living/transport/childcare costs to work is a joke.
It's a clever ploy to reduce band 5 nurse numbers and increase uptake for apprenticeships (where band 4s are being trained to do what nurses do) and pay a few grand less per person for it.
Students aren't supposed to be counted in the numbers on paper. But, as we all know, in practice...
I recently qualified and, as much as I love nursing, I would not have applied if not for the bursary. I would have rather got into £40K+ debt studying software development and earning a starting salary of £35K!! All that debt for a starting salary of £22K plus all the hours you have to put in working on placements doesn't seem worth it.

JustVent · 10/02/2018 15:10

Nope. But I’d have kept applying if I didn’t get in whether I had to pay tuition or not.

Original poster
Livinglifepeachy · 10/02/2018 15:35

Justvent I still want to do nursing even though I will come out with 50k in debt. The point is it still unfair...

OP posts:
JustVent · 10/02/2018 16:18

But you must have known about the change when you applied?

It does suck, big time. I don’t know anyone who thinks it’s a good idea. And it has, understandably put people off applying.
But those who do apply surely know what is happening?

PancakeInMaBelly · 10/02/2018 16:20

Ive just looked at my local unis website and they've scrapped the Feb intake for adult nursing. They really are pushing the apprentise or associate routes arent they, despite previous assurances that it would COMPLIMENT not replace uni grad nurses..

Its all quick fixes to temprarily puff up "bums on seats" to plug staffing shortages, but at what long term costs?. Get the template looking pretty with band 4s and apprentises...who cares about retention or safety?

Original poster
Livinglifepeachy · 10/02/2018 16:40

Justvent that's exactly what I am talking about but obviously if nobody openly opens a discussion or talks about it.. It will just be shoved under the carpet

OP posts:
stargazer2030 · 10/02/2018 17:04

Dd is in her first year - the first the bursary was scrapped. It makes me so angry but it's what she wants to do.
She is currently on placement - in a different city. This involves 3 x 13 hour shifts with anything up to an hours travel each way. She also has an important essay to submit alongside. I knew it would be tough and luckily for her she has opted to live at home for the first year. It means she can afford to run a car (otherwise add anything up to another hours travel each way). I can also help her in other ways when she is exhausted - cooking, doing washing etc.
She can't come away with us in the summer as she isn't allowed to book a holiday in the 6 weeks they get off.
Her friends who are living in are really struggling. Short of cash, no chance of a part time job, absolutely exhausted. Quite a few are wondering wether they have made the right choice.
Also interestingly this is the first year ever her very competitive course went to clearing as they didn't fill it.
It's not the same as any other degree course.

JustVent · 10/02/2018 17:07

She isnt allowed to book a holiday on one of her weeks off?!

JustVent · 10/02/2018 17:08

And no chance an part time job? Most of my cohort work, so that’s true at all. I work.

PancakeInMaBelly · 10/02/2018 17:09

"She isnt allowed to book a holiday on one of her weeks off?!"
Resits/resubmission time probably. And placement "make up" hours etc

JustVent · 10/02/2018 17:12

Resubmission if you fail.

They can’t tell you when you can and can’t go on holiday that’s ridiculous and I don’t believe it for a second.

PancakeInMaBelly · 10/02/2018 17:12

But vent, most students work on the bank or do bank for nursing homes. Doing that ON TOP OF placement is not great in that it burns you out.

Then again, all qualified nurses I know do bank on top of their contract in order to get by so....

JustVent · 10/02/2018 17:12

And you won’t be in placement, you’ll be on annual leave. That’s kinda the point....

JustVent · 10/02/2018 17:13

But vent, most students work on the bank or do bank for nursing homes. Doing that ON TOP OF placement is not great in that it burns you out.

There’s also the weeks and weeks of uni when you can also work.

PancakeInMaBelly · 10/02/2018 17:16

"I don’t believe it for a second."

I do. Nursing tutors are known for being tougher on their students than other undergrad tutors.
On other undergrad courses you'll have a time-table of results and resubmissions that you can work around over the holidays.

Nursing courses dont make it so easy, like theyre testing your grit/commitment Hmm and only release a lot of info last min. So I totally believe that some nursing students are just told to be "available" as results and resub tutorials will be "some time" over the holidays.....

JustVent · 10/02/2018 17:20

How can any nursing lecturer tell any student to do anything? They literally cannot do that.

They can suggest that it’s a bad idea to go away if you have to resist an exam but otherwise they can’t tell you that you can’t leave the country in case.... in case what exactly? Absolutely nothing.

JustVent · 10/02/2018 17:22

Nursing courses don’t make it easy? How many courses have you done?

My uni hasn’t excellent lecturers who are above and beyond supportive and helpful and they want you to succeed it put up barriers and punishments at every turning.

JustVent · 10/02/2018 17:23

Bloody iPhone changing my word words

PancakeInMaBelly · 10/02/2018 17:24

"There’s also the weeks and weeks of uni when you can also work"
Yeah. BANK work. Cause not many other jobs will give you 6 weeks off here, 4 weeks off there...

I do it myself, I do loads of bank as its the only second job I can get that works around my shifts. BUT. Its not ideal. Student nurses shouldnt HAVE to. They are full time students and should be doing hours of self directed study when not on placement, not back to back bank shifts while they can as not on placement!

Pippin8 · 10/02/2018 17:24

I trained when students still got a bursary. I also worked bank as a hca, like so many others. I didn’t need a student loan & had no childcare costs, so I accrued no debt.

My placements were 12 hour days & nights. If I had to do all that again with no bursary & a student loan, no way I would. Nurses, midwives & other hcp’s are becoming devalued & IMO are paid a pittance.

Where I work at the moment, there is a pilot scheme that has upskilled band 4’s to 5’s. They have no health training at all. I have noticed that many of them think literally & have very limited clinical judgement. They are not assessing unwell patients, but they are giving health advice & undertaking safeguarding duties.

It’s scary.