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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Calling out to nurses and student nurses

248 replies

Livinglifepeachy · 09/02/2018 20:30

Hey

I am due to start a nursing degree end of this month but I can't stop feeling like nurses are being taken for a mug and cheap labourers to put it bluntly. Here are the reasons why...

We have to pay over 9k per year in tuition fees and we don't get to choose our placements at the NHS. We don't get paid to be on placement yet apprentices do. Our placement equals to 2700hrs in three years. From what I have heard from second year nurses and third year nurses is that whilst your on placement your mentor usually doesn't have a lot of time for you. We can't actually hold a non flexible jobs because placements can be any day of the week so only when you are not on placement you can achieve to work weekends.

Can someone please share your thoughts on this matter are my feelings justifiable or is there something I have missed?

OP posts:

PancakeInMaBelly · 11/02/2018 00:02

Student nurses do night shifts for absolutely zero extra money. If you've ever done nights you'll know that the bursary alone isnt going to make that business worthwhile!

People do talk themselves down though. Sometimes if theyre lacking confidence. A classmate of mine who used to say that she was just going to use it to get onto a "proper" degree went on to have one of the most sparkling careers of our cohort. And has post grad qualifications in nursing. I think she just didnt want people to know how much she wanted it before she actually got it IYKWIM.

Serin · 11/02/2018 00:03

Damn, we should have trained as actresses and dancers

DADA Funding

Wonder if they would come and help on the wards if we asked them nicely enough?

ShapelyBingoWing · 11/02/2018 00:08

You made that point better than I managed, PancakeInMaBelly, ta

PancakeInMaBelly · 11/02/2018 00:25

I mean you can SAY "yeah Im not really bothered about nursing, just didnt know what else to do so.." but you wont get through the course if you really think that inside. Its tough. The pp who mentioned "grit" wasnt being idealistic, its not something that nurses should IDEALLY have, its what you NEED just to get through the course.

Also: the classmates who were stroppiest about the uni blocks were often the superstars on placememt.

Original poster

Livinglifepeachy · 11/02/2018 06:13

Newdoofus
The thread / question I have asked has nothing to do with the love commitment etc of being a nurse. It's about the system behind.

I will break it down for you. Imagine you come across a dress and it's the most amazing once In a lifetime dress that you can't sleep without thinking about it your dreams and happiness bs stems from the dress. Then you find out 2 6 year olds made it one potentially died in the process and the other has spent 15 hour days for a year making that dress.

You love the dress but should you buy it? Figure out ways around it? Get maybe a replica made? Hence my questions around apprenticeships.. And make people aware of the situation...i love the dress/nursing but dislike the process behind. I feel like if we don't discuss this openly it's just going to be shoved under the carpet. I have spoken with a few 2nd and 3rd years and there is a mix some said they wouldn't do it others would (I am still doing it regardless of tuition) but if people feel this way it's creating barriers for people to become nurses when this country needs them.
I also think it's normal to expect more from those paying tuition fees that there placements have a more dedicated mentor and teaching standards are better than they have been just as you would expect it from another degree.

OP posts:

hibbledibble · 11/02/2018 06:41

It iS an absolute travesty that nursing students have to be oay fees, as well as l1losing out on the bursary.

There is already a recruitment crisis. This will just bring the nhs to its knees.

DownstairsMixUp · 11/02/2018 09:34

My uni is shit personally. They tell us not to book anything as they are useless and often have to change rooms last minute, every essay result has been late at this uni. No one listens to ours either about going on holiday since they can't stick to being organised themselves!

Headofthehive55 · 11/02/2018 09:51

It's a very oversubscribed degree. And that's why they don't need to give you a bursary.
People do it as a second degree.
When it wasn't so fashionable, it was easy to get onto the course and they were struggling for applicants.
It's not that the NHS needs nurses, yes they do, but I think there were ten applicants per place.

Headofthehive55 · 11/02/2018 09:53

It's more about the training numbers in the past few years. Now they will train so many more as it doesn't cost as much to train each one.

ShapelyBingoWing · 11/02/2018 10:07

There aren't the mentor numbers to just suddenly start increasing student numbers though. Especially when making entry less competitive will lead to a calibre of student (obviously not everyone but certainly some) who needs more support being allowed to train. There will also need to be more tutors... Where do they come from? The government are expecting a very static existing pool of already stretched RNs to suddenly be able to scale up the teaching aspects of their roles.

It doesn't work. And the only way to really make it work is to alter things so that less support is expected for students and the resource can be stretched further.

greenllicic · 11/02/2018 10:18

I qualified 5 years ago and retired 2 years ago due to ill health. I was lucky as I got the bursary. The course was one of hardest things Iv ever done in my life but you will find it easier being an HCA first. IME some mentors were good and some were awful and really didn't want to teach me anything and I was begging to get my book filled in and passed. Depends on what placements you get. It takes over your life for 3 years but I loved it and loved my job. 2 of my younger colleagues from my cohort are now in Australia travelling and working. I would say if you're young I would go for it. Don't be in it for the money though as you will never get rich nursing.

LucheroTena · 11/02/2018 10:19

It’s a really difficult job, intellectually, emotionally and physically. For relatively shit pay. You are treated by the organisation as the lowest of the professions and have no power. There is no way if I had my time over I would train again. Certainly not if I’d had to pay for the ‘privilege’. I trained in the bad old days with a small bursary, we used to do agency, babysitting and cleaning jobs to top up income, but it was impossible to find any regular work because of the need to be available for shifts. I don’t know what holiday the students get now but back then it was far less than uni holidays. When we were in the ‘school of nursing’ it was 9-5 days. My friends doing normal degrees often only had 10 contact hours a week at uni, then long holidays, so could work loads to top up the then student grants.

GetOutOfMYGarden · 11/02/2018 10:41

you are treated by the organisation as the lowest of the professions and have no power

Which hospital is this?

Headofthehive55 · 11/02/2018 11:22

Several of us where I work are qualified mentors but aren't utilised.

ShapelyBingoWing · 11/02/2018 11:34

I'm afraid that's not what the mentor situation looks like everywhere Headofthehive55. Twice now I've been assigned 'mentors' who haven't actually completed their mentorship yet. This was problematic both times but actually one of these nurses wasn't even coping well as a nurse and certainly wasn't ready for mentorship. There was just such a drive to create more mentors that her workplace felt she had to take a student on. I've also had a placement where on any given shift, there were more students than qualifieds, never mind the ratio between students and mentors! (The resentment towards students that this creates is horrendous but that's a whole other thread!)

In departments that end up with just one student, that student can be a real labour of love. Always something to do, to learn, always some way they can help. It's lovely when you find yourself in that kind of setting, even if it's not an area of interest. But I find that investment in students really decreases as student numbers increase.

Original poster

Livinglifepeachy · 11/02/2018 11:44

Does anyone know where the money that has been scrapped going towards? If we as students don't receive it I really hope mentors do.. And it's reinvested towards our education

OP posts:

Headofthehive55 · 11/02/2018 12:23

Who knows wing?
My hospital probably doesn't even know I'm able to be a mentor.
And no, they don't get extra money.

NewDOOFUSfor18 · 11/02/2018 14:21

Mentors don't get paid any extra although, imo, they should. It's a lot of extra work for them on top of an already overloaded job, a lot of extra responsibility.

PancakeInMaBelly · 11/02/2018 15:16

Where I work the mentor course is compulsary and goes to whoever has been there the longest. They send 2 nurses a year on it (theres very little funding for non inhouse training).

This means that a nurse who has been there 3 years but would love to be a mentor and wants to work towards credits for a masters, cant and has to wait in line, and a nurse who has been there 5 years and does NOT want to me a mentor OR do any uni work has to.

And then we wonder why theyre not so welcoming of their students....

PancakeInMaBelly · 11/02/2018 15:20

Last ward I worked on they sent a nurse who was 3 years off retirement on the mentor course. She hated every minute. She had never done a degree and the uni work caused her great stress AND she wasnt looking to increasd her responsibilities as was so ready to retire!

There were younger ambitious keen nurses there who would have grabbed the opportunity to do mentor training with both hands! But the funding was allocated on seniority.

LJBBLL · 09/04/2019 00:05

Nurses can get access to specialist mortgage lenders when they use www.nursesmortgagesonline.co.uk/

SeaWitchly · 13/04/2019 22:13

Stealing congratulations on qualifying as an ODP. It is a great qualification to have however unfortunately is not recognised if you want to work overseas. IMO also it is not really a suitable qualification for recovery work as I think, ideally, you need a registered nurse who has ITU or HDU or at least ward experience. Great for anaesthetics and scrub though where you work as part of a theatre team.

Junkmail · 13/04/2019 22:21

I trained as one of the last cohort to get the bursary and I’m sickened that they’ve taken it away. I don’t work as a nurse now and am actually retraining in something entirely different because yes, it’s a rewarding job but it needs to be paid fairly for the exceptionally trying work it can entail and currently it’s not. It’s just not sustainable and I’d not be surprised if there’s a massive drop in applications because it’s hard enough without the financial support—as low as it was for me, I’d be amazed if the majority of people can afford to do it now as it’s just so hard to fit any paid work around your training. It’s honestly a disgrace to have people get into debt to do such a vital job.

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