Women working out of the home condem other women

[restofthetimes]

....to caring for their children. For low pay. (Albeit very expensive childcare for the end user? ie a working couple one of whose wages possibly only just covers childcare fees.... leaving them with effectively one income again)

This is the reality. The number of men caring for the children hasn’t gone up as the number of women working out of the home has.

In an ideal world, would there be an equal number of sahds to sahms? Or should we force more men into paid childcare jobs. I don’t know the statistics, but it seems men just don’t want to work in that area. So women bear the brunt again.

It all seems weird .

Why not just make childcare free for everyone?

How would you pay for that??

Why should childless people fund other people’s lives?

Agree saladday -I don't expect anyone else to have to pay for the choice I have made.
We decided to go without ever having a flash car and we had lots of lovely cheap and cheerful bucket and spade holidays when the children were little. As it is -I think we were still net better off than if we had had to fork out for childcare.

I think things are changing slowly although Im in London so have that bias. Virtually all of my friends work PT, & lots of our husbands work 4 days, or flexibly. My DH can wfh frequently. While the school run is still majorly females, there are more & more men doing it.

Yes childcare can mean you are not left with much. However if you take a year off & with subsidised hours kicking in at 3 (and you might have had another yr mat leave during that time) it’s not actually that long before you get more salary back. My DH pays the childcare out of his salary so it’s a family expense.

I do enjoy working pt as I do find it stimulating, that doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy time with my children & had them simply to dump them on others. I have an amazing CM, who I pay £70 a day for & she is a friend now.

Work is more competitive now than ever & I think unless you have a specialist skill/training it’s very hard to get back in after taking 5 yrs off. Plus tech is changing so fast. That’s the main reason I keep me toe in.

I hate the way these debates always end up insulting those who make different choices same as the bf vs ff threads. Be confident that your choice is right for your family & don’t judge others to justify it.

WOH don’t have children to sack them off on strangers & SAHM aren’t lazy or boring.

Fully agree confusednotcom2
Always - please notice that it is always, always, always, fellow womrn who do the bitching, sniping and put downs. In a previous thread on the topic of "facilitated men" a SAHM was told by a WOHM to "run along and give your DH special cuddles".

Whenever a man finds out you don't WOHM - 99.99999% of the time - they don't even register the fact with even a "Huh" or an "Oh" or an "OK. They certainly don't comment on it or expect you to justify your political and social views. It is always other women that want to denigrate your choice, ot make out that you must be thick, oppressed, drugged, religious, bored, trivial etc etc

We all pay taxes. Schools are free. Why not childcare?

It would allow more women to return to work and help pull families out of poverty. It would mean more money in the pockets of families who will spend it and boost the economy.

Young children will be in good quality childcare, provided with all kinds of learning opportunities and not sat in front of CBeebies all day.

makes sense

"Round here dog walkers get more than childcare workers."

Yup, I work in early years and two of my colleagues with older/grown up children are leaving soon to run their own doggy daycare and walking business, much better pay and more flexible hours.

Mind you, with the minimum wage increases early years workers can expect a 20% pay rise between last year to the year after next so I would imagine childcare costs will go up by at least that much, maybe more when you account for the increase in pension costs and the 30 hour funding mess up.

Tinycitrus it will be interesting to see if any political party would adopt that as a policy and then to see how it fairs at the polling stations.

Other countries do it - Denmark for example covers three quarters of the cost of childcare and more for lower income families.

Interesting point about making childcare free. I believe one of the main reasons the 30 hours were introduced was because the gov will collect more in taxes then it costs

@FrancinePefko I get the impression that you are a little insecure in your own choices. Intellectual stimulation is one of the reasons I work. It is personal to me and in no way an insult to SAHMs. I fully appreciate that not everyone feels that way and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. But what should I say when asked why I choose to work? Should I lie and say I only work for the money, just so I don’t accidentally offend anyone? The insults to WOHM on mumsnet are far, far worse in my opinion. In this horrible thread, we have had nurseries described as institutions, wohm questioned about why they bother having kids, pity for kids who attend childcare, making memories etc. You yourself are guilty of the old “we were happy to go without flash cars” which could imply that working mothers put buying a flash car ahead of their kids. In my experience, this is rarely the case. I personally work for intellectual stimulation and because I think that having enough money to buy a house with a garden, take the kids on interesting holidays and pay for extracurricular activities is valuable. All things we couldn’t afford on DH’s salary alone.

*Stretchoutandwait

FrancinePefko I get the impression that you are a little insecure in your own choices

Your judgement of my choices means such a lot to me. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

And FWIW I don’t care anymore about the nurseries being institutions, why bother having kids snide remarks. I am secure in my choices and I can see the benefits it brings to my family. However this wasn’t always the case. I have had moments of doubt and comments like these would have been very hurtful. Why can’t we be more supporting of each other?

@FrancinePefko in what way have I judged your choices. I have merely defended my own. I don’t know anything about you and your situation. I have never judged whether people choose to sah or who. I think children can be happy with either set up. People should just do what works for them.

you do come across as incredibly defensive about your choice francine . If you are truly happy with your choice then why attack others with different set ups?

There is always the assumption that both parents working is the path to riches and so you can afford ‘flash cars’ ‘holidays’ etc

That’s not the case for the majority - most people work, pay their bills, take the childcare hit and hope for a better future once they are not paying for childcare.

We both work ft. We have a very small car, live in a flat and have one holiday a year -budget flights, air b&b etc.

Without my income we would really really struggle.

NeverTwerkNaked
You do come across as incredibly defensive about your choice francine . If you are truly happy with your choice then why attack others with different set ups

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. I have never once been asked by a man "Are you, truly truly happy with your choice?" . I imagine you with a condescending head tilt as you wrote that gem NeverTwerk.

I am delighted with my choice. I gave up my career before my first was born. I think the work I do as a SAHM is one of the most important and rewarding occupations on the planet.

I have not attacked any WOHMs. I have defended my choice in the face of attack from other women.

I feel that we get so caught up in the SAHM / WOHM. Can't we just agree that there are no easy answers and to respect each others choices.

There are things we can all do to address real inequalities and promote inclusiveness.

Women in management can support flexible working policies and part time job opportunities.

We can all question why traditionally roles occupied by women are lower paid then traditionally male sectors.

We can support each other and recognise what decision is right for one woman may not be right for another and thst is fine.

@FrancinePefko it’s a bit much for you to be lecturing on “respect” after trotting out a load of judgmental nonsense about “strangers” and “institutions” upthread

Women have always worked outside the home. Not all use paid childcare.

Why are the childcare arrangements the womans problem. You are being deliberately nasty. Instead of blaming the system we blame the cogs.

Francineperko, your post insinuated that working mothers don't nurture their own children. Pot, kettle?

@FrancinePefko not a single person on this thread has asked you if you are happy with your choice because no one actually cares. I have zero interest in what individual families choose to do. But I hate the judgmental attitude towards paid childcare that always crops up in these threads. I also think on a population level it is an interesting question why so few dads go part time or stay at home.

I don't judge any woman for their choices if work or not work I'm not in their shoes

I do wonder why so many people go to work when they have nothing or negligible amounts left over after childcare. What's the point?

Um, to maintain skills and contacts to remain employable when children are at school/grown up?

The point I'm making is that these questions, challenges and assumptions are always, always made by other women, never men. It just seems very shitty to me. When I tell a Dad that I am a SAHM I have never once had one of them say "OMG - that would drive me INSAAAAANE!!! What do you DO all day????"