Women working out of the home condem other women

[restofthetimes]

....to caring for their children. For low pay. (Albeit very expensive childcare for the end user? ie a working couple one of whose wages possibly only just covers childcare fees.... leaving them with effectively one income again)

This is the reality. The number of men caring for the children hasn’t gone up as the number of women working out of the home has.

In an ideal world, would there be an equal number of sahds to sahms? Or should we force more men into paid childcare jobs. I don’t know the statistics, but it seems men just don’t want to work in that area. So women bear the brunt again.

It all seems weird .

That is a really good point.

Either parents wages shouldn't have to be less than what goes out for childcare imo.

It reminds me of that episode of Motherland, where she was interviewing a nanny for £18 per hour. The nanny, in turn, had another nanny who was £10 per hour to allow her to go out to be a nanny!

Men are facilitated by women.
It’s women who step up to look after the cds, take everything on their shoulders so they can do whatever is necessary to getbtheir promotions (inc for example for working late) have the house ticking whilst thye don't even have to think about what will be on the table for dinner (let alone plan the hols, deal wth the dcs, CM etc etc).

And women are facilitated by men equally as much. It's more often men who step up and do all the earning, making sure the rent or mortgage is paid, along with all the bills so that his children and their mother have a roof over their heads and food in their tummies.

It's not a competition. There's a reason why two parent families are seen as the ideal, and have been the norm through various societies in the whole of history. Families work better on the whole when there are two adults providing what their offspring need, why do we need to argue about who does most and which role is most valuable. Children need both!

A good point about gardeners being £25ph.

But should we increase childcare to £25ph to match, or decrease the gardener's pay?

Either way, a gardener (male or female) couldn't afford to pay a childcarer.

Why is it not that childcare costs X and the joint income of the parents is Y?
because it makes no sense to calculate it that way, that's why. Income A will stay the same (mother or father,even if more likely father). If income B is less than childcare, then there's no point financially to go back to work. You can still want to, but not because of the wage.

RolyRocks Fri 09-Feb-18 10:53:22
I agree with teaching work ethic but I wouldn't go to work unless I took home an amount that made it worth it. If my wages were only covering childcare I would stay at home and be with my kids.

That's a bit like the grasshopper who didn't work during the summer and suffered in winter. My mother took that stance and sadly, my father died reasonably young. She was faced with 12 years to try to earn enough to get a decent-ist pension. This included working 2 jobs in areas that she was grossly underqualified for but her big gap in experience held her back. She still has a relatively small pension and often says she regrets not going back to work after we were in school.

If you won the lottery and didn't have to worry about retirement, then fair enough. Considering that that is an extremely rare occurrence though, surely you can see why some women choose to go back to work and spend 2 or 3 years paying more out than they get in?

Kind of, but that has never applied to me, I have always worked as a self employed contractor and rarely been PAYE so I've always had my own private pension that I pay in to, as well as my own NI payments.

I go to work three days a week for my own wellbeing basically.

Yearly, it is probably a very minor financial gain, - but outside of school termtime, some months it is a loss making exercise.

Honestly, it feels like a 'treat' to be able to work. Which it is. We don't need the money. Thank god, because I barely bring any in and I don't know how we'd make this work if we needed two proper incomes.

It depends if you just think of work as covering your costs- or as an investment in a higher salary later. You might just about break even for a few years (as my DH does)- but when your childcare costs are finished your salary will be much higher than your peer who stopped work- and you will continue that advantage throughout your working life.

Childcare salaries are appalling- but blame the government and its total failure to finance childcare and treat nursery workers as professionals, not individual women (women! of course!) for crap funding in the sector. Think about it when you vote.

I'm still confused as to why I (FT WAHM)am the one condemning other women into low paid childcare jobs?
As it stands, once our second is born my husband will become a SAHD. So no more 'condemnation' of other women, phew.

Kind of, but that has never applied to me

I appreciate that but your original post stated that you couldn't understand why some women work when they pay more in childcare than they get back out, so these are just a few explanations as to why plenty of women do just that.

Why is it women doing the "condemning?"

I don't know why. But that is my experience. I've never had a man ask me why being at home doesn't drive me bonkers or if I am not bored out of mind

crunchymint
Yes it will be easier for him being a facilitated man.Does he go on about his perfect home life at work?

No he doesn't as a matter of fact. Nobody normal would ever claim their life was "perfect" or tempt fate in such an arrogant way.

The point I am making is that surprise surprise it is always a woman who seems to have an issue with my being a SAHM never ever a man.

The tone of your post confirms this.

Lilyhatesjaz
Having worked in childcare for a number of years, I would say its a rewarding, interesting, enjoyable job not something you are condemned to do

100% agree. That's why I chose to do it myself rather than pay a stranger to do it for me.

Ffs francine what’s with the “stranger” nonsense. utterly ridiculous. My son’s key worker is a friend for life now, and my daughter rushes to tell her key worker every bit of news. Do you see your children as being “raised by strangers” when they go to school?

• A good point about gardeners being £25ph.

But should we increase childcare to £25ph to match, or decrease the gardener's pay?

Either way, a gardener (male or female) couldn't afford to pay a childcarer.*

An approximation off hourly pay is doubling it to get the annual salary in £000s, so that's c.£50k full time.

Feels like this thread is just an excuse to attack working mothers (and not working fathers). Some horrible comments on here. The usual “why bother having kids” etc etc.

As someone else said, I hope all those with their fake sympathy for the poor hard done by childcare workers are making their own clothes, growing their own food and making their own electronic devices (I wonder who made the phones, iPads and laptops we all tap out our comments on). We are all dependent on work done by the low paid. Blaming it on mothers who choose to work is not the answer.

NeverTwerkNaked
Ffs francine what’s with the “stranger” nonsense. utterly ridiculous. My son’s key worker is a friend for life now, and my daughter rushes to tell her key worker every bit of news
FFS (to use your delightful phrase), wouldn't you prefer it your daughter had had the opportunity to rus to her mother rather than her "key worker"

She does Francine, she goes there for 6 hours, 3 days a week. We have glorious amounts of time together. But I expect she would like me to be able to put food on a table and keep a roof over her head....

People choose what sector they wish to work in. You can't force men to work in childcare...or women for that matter.

The fact if the matter is not everyone...male or female has the academic ability or capability to perform higher paid roles.

Someone needs to do the childcare work...the supermarket checkout work and other low paid jobs.

I used nursery and a child minder. I paid £2.50 an hour to my childminder...not a lot even back then...my DC are 18 and 15 now...but I paid that out of my salary...and it certainly added up...she looked after other babies as well.

I must admit what used to irritate me...was her saying she had to be there for her kids and wouldn't work like I did. If mums like me didn't work..she'd have no job.

1ndig0

Well my DH is a facilitated man. At least my DH knows that the money he makes bears no relation whatsoever to the importance of the actual role he's in. This is why he values my role as a SAHM. It's a shame that caring for children is so undervalued, seen as the preserve of dowdy, unfulfilled SAHMs or women who can't go anything better. As PP say, if done properly, raising children is one if the hardest and most rewarding jobs there is

100% agreed. I believe the insult "facilitated man" was invented on MN. I might be wrong. But of course, the most vile vitriol was directed by women towards other women that were the "evil facilitators"

NotReadyToMove

My DH has v senior colleague who is clearly very bitter and resentful that I am a SAHM - passing really bitchy comments about his (DH's) "perfect home and perfect wife" and, recently, how much easier it was for him being "a facilitated man".

As far as I am concerned, she is expressing a FACT

Erm no she is expressing an opinion and a particularly nasty one too. If my DH made uninvited comments on her personal life and domestic situation - you can bet she would be trotting off to HR with grievance for harassment. As it is -she feels it is entirely appropriate to belittle me (she has never even met me) as a "Handmaid", "Stepford Wife" etc.

My DH never offered any of this information. This female senior colleague specifically asked about it at leaving do for another colleague. Since then, he's told her directly that our family life is none of her business. What was her response? Apparently she made the "handbag gesture" at my DH. What a delightful women she is.

I have never been called any of these things by a man. It is ALWAYS other women who condemn fellow women who chose to be SAHMs.
So OP's comment is entirely justified.

Why not just make childcare free for everyone?

How would you fund it?

Women working out of the home condem other women124

Yesterday 07:40restofthetimes

....to caring for their children.

I haven't seen this? where are they condemning them?

There are several comments right in this thread.. They are mainly of the snide nature ...
"Working retains sanity" - The inference being SAHMs must be insane
"Working keeps me intellectually stimulated" - The inference being that supporting and nurturing your own child to learn, walk, speak, read, laugh, play and sing cannot possibly be interesting.
"Good luck in your retirement" - You might just want to check on how wonderful your own magnificent pension is doing.