'I don't shake women's hands'

[canary1]

In a work setting today, a client was seen by four colleagues, 2 male, 2 female. The client shook hands with the two male colleagues at the end, and when I held my hand out in expectation, this is what he said. I know many muslims and never ran into this before, though this is his reason. I'm disgusted at such overt sexism dressed up as religion. I can't say that's just his beliefs any more than I can excuse any other overt discriminatory behaviour. How is this regarded as an acceptable way to behave?

The only time I’ve encountered this it was very (very) definitely a misogynistic act designed to humiliate me.

IMHO it only served to humiliate the handshake refuser and the gasps of shock from the other men in the room were quite satisfying.

But as with all these things context is everything.

@Doobigetta
I didn’t say he should be forced to shake her hand.
I am pulling bullshit on all of it. White woman not shaking a black mans hand. Muslim or Jew not shaking a woman’s hand

Just because you can in your own mind (with some nefarious back up) feel that it’s ok to do or not do something

Sometimes that’s simply not the case

"But this is nothing to do with being treated "like a man". Just not like a second class citizen."

Nope. Being treated differently from a man, does NOT = being treated like a second-class citizen. It can often mean being treated with MORE respect and consideration (doors held open for you, 'women and children first').

@ChesterBelloc
As a Muslim you are allowed to shake the hand of a BARRON woman
As they pose no risk...
Go figure

"Equality" does not equal "sameness".

BARON even

You should have just turned around and said loudly that you were baron and no risk.

I'm not talking generally, I'm talking in this specific instance @ChesterBelloc.

As an aside, why should I be treated with more respect because of my sex?

Ah. Apologies huntinginthedark

I worked with many Muslim men. Some who shook hands and some who didn’t. The ones who didn’t managed to convey respect in other ways - good eye contact and a head nod, touching the chest and a greeting etc.

I also worked with a number of Muslim women, some who would shake hands with men and some who wouldn’t.

I'll give you another comparison. A white woman says she doesn't want to kiss a black man, because she might catch something. Is she a nasty racist cow? Undoubtedly. Is he allowed to insist that she kisses him anyway? No, he isn't. Her reasons are shit and bigoted and make her an awful person, but she still gets to decide who she kisses

Doobigetta that's actually a pretty good analogy. Although I'm not sure OP is suggesting he should have been forced to shake her hand.

Also, if we take the analogy further, judging by this thread we can say that if the belief that black people are diseased was shared by millions under the banner of an institution, we wouldn't even be right to complain about it. We'd be told to respect her beliefs.

Apparently shitty beliefs must be respected if lots of other people also share those shitty beliefs.

It's happened to me a few times with Jewish clients. No big deal. It doesn't change if they listen to my advice and/or have any bearing on my professional life. if they said, I'm not dealing with you because your a woman then my employer would step in on my behalf but it's just a handshake. Like looking someone in the eye when you say hello. Doesn't bother me at all.

@DiegoMadonna
Very succinct!

Replace "woman" with "gay" "Jewish" or "black" and it's obviously not okay is it? Religion may encourage sexism but society and the business world certainly should not.

Women claiming it's okay because culture or religion are colluding in discrimination imo.

Replace 'man' with 'Muslim' and it is OK to post just about anything as this thread demonstrates. Women are indeed colluding in discrimination.

We are living in a time when we are talking loudly (which is good!) about how terrible it is when people feel forced to be touched by someone of the opposite sex when they don't want to be. This is not about inequality or a lack of respect, it is about not wanting what they see as inappropriate and unwelcome physical contact

In the workplace I expect to be treated the same as my male colleagues. I do not require more respect and I definitely don't deserve less.

A man refusing to shake my hand pisses all over that so no, I wouldn't be accepting it.

Total bollocks.
Please remember that all atrocities begin with some ( usually male) twat deciding that x section of society are less than. Insert what ever read on you like. They have brown eyes, follow x religion, have black skin blah blah blah,

No excuse,

Nothing justifies it.
I can't say I won't have non married heterosexuals on my cafe any more than thus man can refuse to treat women the same as he dies men.

I don't agree that it is discrimation dressed up as religion. Discrimation and misogyny are key parts of several religions, they are not dressed up or hiding, they are proudly proclaimed.

I can see why in the interests of short term peaceful coexistence we tolerate these differences but of course I don't believe that our expectations of equality and the prejudices of many religions are in any way equally valid alternatives.

No one is suggesting that this man, or anyone else, should have been compelled or felt compelled to shake hands with women. He could have chosen not to shake hands with anyone, to avoid refusing to shake hands with the OP. But he chose not to, and chose to make a specific point about refusing to shake the OPs hand.

This has happened to me in similar circs and it was so awkward. I felt humiliated, as though he felt the real business was between him and my male colleague and that I was irrelevant. Not shaking either of our hands would have been totally fine.

I feel in my own mind that I get to decide whether I want someone to touch me or not, and that's all that matters. I don't expect that to be over-ridden by someone else's cultural norms, whether that is an Italian lecturing me about how many cheek kisses we do, or a well-meaning but clumsy manager wanting to hug me and hold on for a bit too long at the Christmas do, or my friend's elderly father wanting me to sit on his knee at her wedding. Those are all perfectly innocent, normal social interactions in many people's opinions, but to me they are unwelcome and I don't want them to be forced on me. So I extend the same courtesy unconditionally to other people.

People believe all kinds of shit
If we never changed where would we all be now

@Doobigetta
Again completely missing the point
The not shaking a black persons hand is a good point

Not shaking hands with women is like our esteemed vice president pence saying he won't have dinner alone with a female colleague. It is saying that even in the workplace, women should be viewed primarily as sexual beings - their sex and the possibility of having sex with them cannot be divorced from their professionalism or skills or personality or whatever.

If a man genuinely feels like this (as that asshat Pence does) or feels his religion requires him to behave like this (as many muslims and jewish people do) then the solution is simple. you don't go for dinner alone with any colleagues - male or female. you don't shake any hands - male or female. Simple and non-offensive.

Well said Doobigetta. I think everyone is equating this with lack of respect when it has NOTHING to do with that

Too many posts to answer so I'll try to answer some and apologies if I've missed any.

No - As a woman, I absolutely am not offended that my ex-colleague who I hadn't seen for a long time and went to hug recoiled and apologised whilst explaining. He made a joke out of it, we had a natter for half an hour catching up. I wasn't offended, I learnt that it was one of his beliefs - just like the belief of many other religions I don't agree with.

No offence taken.

And again, that MAN saves lives, even the women's! shock daily!

He is a muslim. A peaceful muslim who isn't ignorant but, whether some harpies disagree, has a belief - and who the hell are we to say he shouln't less we offend some female...ppft!