'I don't shake women's hands'

[canary1]

In a work setting today, a client was seen by four colleagues, 2 male, 2 female. The client shook hands with the two male colleagues at the end, and when I held my hand out in expectation, this is what he said. I know many muslims and never ran into this before, though this is his reason. I'm disgusted at such overt sexism dressed up as religion. I can't say that's just his beliefs any more than I can excuse any other overt discriminatory behaviour. How is this regarded as an acceptable way to behave?

Zzz we've been over the intent vs interpretation thing a few times. Other discrimination relies on the word of the person being discriminated, benign intent isn't usually a defence.

Most people who don't shake hands (some people don't because of germs etc too) would just stand back and bow or something similar instead of being a bit rude. I accidentally put my hand out when I arrived at an air port in Iran and was met by kind hosts and he shook my hand actually.

Aha, I was wondering when the muslim bashing thread would appear.

I literally could not care less who wants to shake my hand or not. No one is losing out or gaining from having their hand shook by this guy, he isn't showing preferential treatment to men, just following some words that he profoundly believes in.

When I was teaching in central London I would never have expected to shake the hand of a Muslim father and never offered it, I waited to see their first move. Was I discriminating against Muslim men by not shaking their hand first? No, I was avoiding an uncomfortable situation so we could move on to the point of the meeting.
This was a lot less of an issue for me than the two occasions when white fathers turned up drunk and touched me inappropriately. That I got angry about.

stealth

I've once been told (not by a Muslim) that it's about ritual impurity. Which also affects anyone that touches a menstruating woman.

It takes 7 days without discharge according to halacha to be clean again, I think. and the counting of clean days can only start... 5 (?) after the start of the flow. => at least 12 impure days

Which is why many women apparently don't wear white underwear the rest of the time...

However, I've also heard that the whole practice (no touching during this period, the ruital cleansing etc) its spiritual, may increase the attraction between married couples and / or be life affirming, that it's a way of appreciating that the potential of that egg housing a soul has been lost but also about appreciating the potential for new life.

However, whilst rituals like this arei mo perfectly fine / acceptable?
Singling out people / only shaking a few people's hands is simply rude.

And yes, it's imo just as rude as refusing to shake a homosexual or a black person's hand.

Handshakes really should be done away with. The number of people who don't wash their hands after visiting the toilet is disgusting.

Why can a verbal greeting not suffice?

He has as much right as anyone not to shake hands with whoever he chooses

But to shake hands with one sex and deliberately not with the other sex is discrimination on the grounds of their gender

If he doesn’t want to shake hands with women then in the situation op describes, he should have said to both males and both females “I don’t shake hands”.

I really do think the behaviour came across as offensive and discriminatory though. Religion is not an excuse to be bloody rude. He could have avoided this by not shaking anyone’s hand.

Why are people so affronted when being saved from faecal matter transfer from hand to hand??

It isn’t any different than shaking hands with green people but refusing to shake hands with orange people

People like this are not showing any tolerance and being rude

Imaginereality - are you missing the point deliberately?

I think most religious rituals are ridiculous and outdated but I can't get particularly worked up about whether a man wants to shake my hand or not. I'll just add this to the mix. If I went on a night out and was walking back from the station on my own down a dark deserted street, and I heard footsteps behind me getting closer and closer, and my heart was pounding. And I forced myself to look over my shoulder ... Nothing would bring me more relief than seeing a man who was forbidden to have physical contact with me.

Handshakes really should be done away with. The number of people who don't wash their hands after visiting the toilet is disgusting.

Why can a verbal greeting not suffice?

Because to wipe away a key ritual of an entire culture is generally considered an intolerant and disrespectful thing to do? Just a thought?!

For goodness sake.

Wow, he should definitely either shake everyone's hand or no one's hand. Religion or not, that is rude.

Woah Whisky, I have no intention of banning you from shaking hands today or tomorrow. I am from the same culture as you. Carry on with your key ritual of germ sharing freely. Nobody has any right to stop you.

Mine was just an opinion on hygiene issue and spread of disease. Quite unimportant. Take no notice

I worked/lived in ME and the vast majority of female colleagues did not shake hands with a male. It is nothing to do with respecting your spouse, it is because they don't want physical contact with the opposite sex. It really wasn't a big deal, they would politely say "sorry I don't shake hands with a man' and get on with business.

Meant to add that from a bodily autonomy perspective I don't think anyone should ever be made to feel that they have to have physical contact with anyone.

If I thought for one moment that doing away with handshakes would eradicate misogyny, I’d ban handshaking today

You're not human unless you relish a bit of human contact. Religion is there to stop us feeling human.

I wonder how many women in the ME are gay! Or at least yearn to just be with another woman and forget all about men. I would say a whole lot!!!

Hi all,

I read this thread with interest as I'm a Muslim woman, who doesn't shake hands with men.

It's nothing to do with impurity. It's to do with the interaction between men and women. So I wouldn't touch a guy with a handshake or a hug, unless he is my father, brother, son, nephew or husband. And the same rule applies to the men too. There are limits in gender interaction which we try to abide by in connection to our faith.

Obviously OP, your colleague shouldn't have handshook with anyone, instead of leaving you out individually, and I can see how awkward that must have made you feel. But having been in his shoes, countless of times, I can assure you, he probably (most likely) felt equally awkward too!

The religious aspect is nothing to do with putting women down, or sexism or anything of the kind.

If anyone has any questions regarding Islam or Muslims, please feel free to ask. We're not a scary bunch.

:-)

No one on this thread has said Muslims are scary.

I am friends with, have relatives, and work with women and men who are Muslims, so am used to this. But it is still based on misogyny and the concept that a handshake with a woman could tempt a man to pursue having sex with her.
And I think it is patronising to suggest that anyone here finds Muslim people scary.

But it is about sexism. It is about the religion thinking if men touch a woman's hand then it might go further and turn into sex which is an insult to adults' ability to control their sexual urges and does not reflect homosexual impulses either -0 a man made by Allah to be attracted to other men who shakes the hand of another man is presumably doing the same thing as a hetero muslim man who shakes a hand with women.

It is just the same as if I said I am not prepared to shake the hands of anyone who is not white surely?

I think we all agree the man could have handled it better - eg not shaken anyone's hand. I don't do kissing of anyone on meeting for example ( I am English after all not French!!!) so I always stand back and put out my hand to avoid the kissing thing that is becoming so prevalent.