'I don't shake women's hands'

[canary1]

In a work setting today, a client was seen by four colleagues, 2 male, 2 female. The client shook hands with the two male colleagues at the end, and when I held my hand out in expectation, this is what he said. I know many muslims and never ran into this before, though this is his reason. I'm disgusted at such overt sexism dressed up as religion. I can't say that's just his beliefs any more than I can excuse any other overt discriminatory behaviour. How is this regarded as an acceptable way to behave?

blackberryfairy no, it doesn't apply to Muslims.

I know (well, I used to know) an observant Orthodox Jewish man who was shomer negiah. He worked for the company that my employer at the time leased our premises from. He did not shake anyone's hand, at least in a work setting. That way he could adhere to the demands of his religious beliefs, without causing to offence to those who did not share those beliefs by treating men and women differently. The individual the op is talking about could absolutely do the same.

I think in general religion "trumps" sex when it comes to work based issues like this.

In any case, surely nobody should be forced to make physical contact with somebody they don't want to?

blackberryfairy it does apply to Muslim men, my BIL was a Muslim and believed this. Different branches of Islam might have different views but it is certainly believed by some.

In any case, surely nobody should be forced to make physical contact with somebody they don't want to?

Ferchrissakes.

It's been said a million times in slightly different words, but:

No one is proposing making this man shake a woman's hand. The suggestion is that he avoid discriminating by shaking no one's hand. THERE IS NOTHING HERE ABOUT FORCED PHYSICAL CONTACT.

Excuse me shouting, but honestly...

Chelle - I helped my neighbour out with an issue where his tenant wasn't paying rent a while ago. The tenant claimed not to speak English (I had cause to doubt that as I saw him on his mobile one day!), so brought along one of the leaders from his mosque.

They did shake my hand! But I was also told that women didn't understand business matters like property and rent; that the tenant's wife was too "emotional" to talk about things like money; that she was more attached to the flat because it was her home and she couldn't work so it meant a lot to her - comment after comment after comment. My neighbour, who was a different religion, was so angry that he threatened to leave if they carried on talking about women in that way.

So I disagree that religion should trump sex in a business relationship, because it can lead to, or stem from, assumptions like the above - namely that women don't understand things because of their sex. And I don't see how you can say, one thing is ok but another is not; either you think it's ok to distinguish people on the grounds of their sex, or you don't, surely?

Thats interesting granny I've never heard of Muslims believing that before, it has zero basis in Islam for Imamiyya and Zaydi Shia, Sunnis, and Ibadis at least. Do you know what sect he belongs to?

Anyone see this story a while back?
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/muslim-woman-leaves-job-after-being-told-to-shake-hands-with-male-colleagues-a7324591.html

I think he was Shia but they got divorced so I can't ask him. I know sex was off the cards during periods as it is for Jews so I assumed it had the same origins?

Religion has no place in the workplace.

Normal working ethics and equality should over-rule any 'religious' behaviour.

He was rude.

We can't have sex when we have our period but we can do everything else, there are no other extra restrictions on physical contact with people. So I have no idea where your ex BIL got that from, maybe a cultural thing. It's not an Islamic belief.

@StatelessPrincess and yet when googling does Islam prohibit touching the opposite sex you get a whole lot of results suggesting that it is indeed an Islamic belief.

Yes I'm aware of that I'm saying it has nothing to do with it being in case a woman is menstruating. Its not allowed regardless since.

Oh yes, I just googled it sinceyouask and there are lots of things about it. StatelessPrincess interpretations will always vary, not just cultural but how you interpret it. He came from a North African Muslim country and was very devout.

Oh sorry @StatelessPrincess, I completely misread what you said! I thought you'd said the prohibition on touch itself wasn't Islamic.

Stateless, with my BIL he would shake hands with women in the family, not other women. Apparently the women in the family would avoid it at that time.

Sorry maybe it was my wording since
Thats interesting granny like I said no touching simply because of menstruation has no Islamic basis, maybe a cultural thing, we are not supposed to touch unrelated members of opposite sex at any time anyway.

This is what many on this thread just can't understand

italian

And maybe the OP needed to be treated like her male colleagues.

Interesting replies- I am with the majority in feeling this is discrimination. Of course I am not suggested anyone is forced to shake hands, that must be clear. But everyone should be treated equally, and we women were not, we were belittled. I was there and this is what I experienced.

Yes this is a true event, I see one poster seems to think it is fake because I was not here replying all day, but I work, so am not looking at mumsnet. Another couple of posters were certain I have started similar posts before, which is just lies. Why would they make this up?

Some posters can dress it up as acceptable behaviour because it is his belief, but as others have said, with that logic there would still be slavery. It is sad that anyone condoned overt discrimination such as this.

Am I the only one that finds hand shaking a bit awkward anyway? Not rttt.
This happened to me once in Turkey. Man we met shook hand of dh, but refused mine. It was awkward

It is sad that anyone condoned overt discrimination such as this

As a society we actively pay for overt discrimination

Church of England Schools
Catholic Schools
Jewish Schools
etc. etc.

The link between a simple handshake and slavery is somewhat tenuous to say the least without recognising we accept religious discrimination throughout society.

And making the link between women opting not to shake hands because of their faith (with the standard caveat to say "as they interpret it" in defiance of the globally recognised jurisprudence of Mumsnet Islamic Theologians....) and slavery is actually offensive given the global sex slave trade.

The menstruation thing is pretty horrific too and yet people are talking about it as if it makes everything OK.
What is the reasoning? Or is it just a pile of crap?