'I don't shake women's hands'

[canary1]

In a work setting today, a client was seen by four colleagues, 2 male, 2 female. The client shook hands with the two male colleagues at the end, and when I held my hand out in expectation, this is what he said. I know many muslims and never ran into this before, though this is his reason. I'm disgusted at such overt sexism dressed up as religion. I can't say that's just his beliefs any more than I can excuse any other overt discriminatory behaviour. How is this regarded as an acceptable way to behave?

Would have been a bit silly to refuse shaking hands with everybody if his religion doesn't allow him physical contact with members of the opposite sex only.

no it wouldn't be silly. It would be a graceful way of ensuring his female colleagues did not feel singled out and treated differently by reason of their sex.

Everyone who thinks this is ok - do you think the same of Vice President Pence's rule that he will not dine alone with female colleagues but male colleagues are fine?

This isn't misogyny or discrimination - the reasons are the same for both male and female Muslims. Islam discourages un-essential touching or physical contact of the opposite sex, as a sign of modest and respect.

The people saying change 'woman' to 'gay', 'black' etc, are being utterly ridiculous. It is not the same, at all!

Please respond to my point about discrimination.

Elton Because it's unnecessary, there is no reason for him to not shake the men's hands, same as there is no reason for me not to shake hands with women but I don't want to shake hands with men.

OK I disagree kubex. I think it's a perfect analogy. Take away intent and see the result please.

When someone says ‘oh I’m not intending to cause offence or hurt by saying I’m going for a Chinky/making and selling golliwogs/whatever other casually racist behaviour they are ‘innocently’ indulging in, we call them out and point out that it’s not the intent, it’s the impact that matters.

Why do people think so much less of women?

I hadn't noticed that suggestion of forced touching zzzz. Who has advocated that?

More posters saying just don't shake hands with anyone then to avoid making so marked a differential between sexes.

Kubex - do you agree with everything that every religion teaches in relation to modesty and respect?

It’s NOT all British people stateless. I’d be furious if anyone tried to touch anyone who had said “no” and I really don’t think they need to explain why or have that “reason” assessed as to its worthiness or “normality” by anyone else.

Hideous attitudes dressed up as protecting women from sexism.

Okay zzzz, so you would be okay with be okay someone routinely refusing to shake the hand of black or gay or Jewish people and would airily dismiss that as 'not having to explain their reasons'. Are you really that accepting of bigotry?

Surely an issue like this could be avoided by more cultural awareness of the norms in Britain.

How can something like this be avoided in the future?
I haven't come across men refusing to shake hands with me. Generally the religious people I men/women I have come across have held the arms behind their back as not to shake hands with anyone.

"I'm loving the way all the SJWs on here are pretending it is a straight choice between shaking everybody (including women's) hands and just shaking men's hands while ignoring the fact that shaking nobody's hand fits everybody's norms and culture."

Actually, shaking hands IS the cultural norm in business circles in this country; not shaking hands is NOT the norm.

And anyway, norms/common cultural practices are not enshrined in law, I'm afraid. It's his preference NOT to shake your hand versus YOUR preference that he shakes your hand as well as those of your male colleagues. Given that your preference involves enforcing unwanted physical contact on someone, his preference wins.

I note that no one has replied to my calling out all the anti-multiculturalism rife in this thread. You're all fine with multi-culturalism, so long as everyone else's cultures are...exactly the same as your own

HollyBayTree

For all we know the OP might have had her finger right up her nose or scratching her arris before the neeting . grin

Your response is deeply stupid.

Because it's unnecessary, there is no reason for him to not shake the men's hands

Yes there is. There is the perfectly good reason of avoiding discriminating against women. Or are you saying this doesn't matter.

There is no good reason for him not to shake the men's hands but an extremely good reason why he shouldn't.

zzzz People should not be forced to touch others. There can be situations where venerable women who have experienced trauma may not want to be touched by men.

Generally the religious people I men/women I have come across have held the arms behind their back as not to shake hands with anyone

Same. I have experienced colleagues not shaking anyone’s hand (thy do a nod instead) but I have never seen someone shake a mans hand and not a woman’s.

I do a lot of work with South America in my current role... took me a a little while to get used to the triple kiss!

What bull shit.

It is sexism being disguised as religion and 'respect'. Nothing respectful about it.

I'd rather not have any dealings with anyone holding these warped beliefs.

Isn't that what zzz was saying?
And for the record none of us have said he should have been forced to shake the ops hand.

seafooodplatter

What bull shit.

It is sexism being disguised as religion and 'respect'. Nothing respectful about it.

I'd rather not have any dealings with anyone holding these warped beliefs.

I agree.

Given that your preference involves enforcing unwanted physical contact on someone, his preference wins Exactly! Agree with everything you said ChesterBelloc

The "everyone or noone" argument is so childish.

There are now very good reasons why a man should avoid physical contact with women in workplaces or, say, going to lunch or inviting us somewhere one on one. Yet it would be ridiculous to say men cannot do anything with anyone one on one just because of that.

FFS it is not a requirement of Islam to not make physical contact with members of the opposite sex!

It is a purely cultural convention that is adopted by some Muslims. He cannot claim his right to discriminate against woman by refusing to shake their hand is protected by his religion. It simply isn't true.

Re Mike Pence refusing to dine alone with female colleagues - he is free to do as he wishes. And in this post-Weinstein world, it seems like an eminently sensible approach.

Stateless isn’t the perception of the recipient an important aspect of our modern interpretation of discrimination? The man in this scenario should have known that a modern western woman was likely to be insulted or offended by his refusal to shake her hand on the basis of her sex and he should have made sure he treated the men and women equally. If that means not shaking anyone’s hand so be it.