'I don't shake women's hands'

[canary1]

In a work setting today, a client was seen by four colleagues, 2 male, 2 female. The client shook hands with the two male colleagues at the end, and when I held my hand out in expectation, this is what he said. I know many muslims and never ran into this before, though this is his reason. I'm disgusted at such overt sexism dressed up as religion. I can't say that's just his beliefs any more than I can excuse any other overt discriminatory behaviour. How is this regarded as an acceptable way to behave?

Refusing to shake someone's hand is commonly seen as a sign of disrespect towards that person if you are happy to shake other people's hands but not theirs.

No exceptions for bullshit misogynistic religious excuses.

@balsamicbarbara You are wrong. You're trying to co-opt and misuse the 'me too' movement. If men can't work out the difference between sexual assault and cordial behaviour then they should have no contact with anyone until they've worked out how to behave in society. If a man is terrified of inviting you for lunch then you probably had a lucky escape.

Stateless why do you claim to know why the man didn't shake her hand? You weren't inside his head - you have no idea what his motives were. We can only judge the man by his actions. In his head he may have been thinking 'I hate having to treat a woman like this but out of a deluded respect for my wife I must' or he might have been thinking 'filthy whore why is this company employing women to do a man's job'. We have no idea, which is why the law judges actions not thoughts.

There are people trying to claim a handshake is a sexual gesture! GTFO.
Do gay colleagues have to refuse to shake hands with members of the same sex in your world?

The underlying assumption to many posts on this thread is that women and men are the same, and therefore should never, in any circumstances, be treated differently.

Being treated differently DOES NOT EQUAL BEING TREATED WORSE. To jump to that compulsion smacks of paranoia and insecurity. The dignity and respectability of a working woman does not originate from, nor depend upon, whether one man in your whole career refrains (awkwardly/rudely/politely) from shaking your hand.

When does British norms trump everything else? people had the egotistically view that in Business you shake hands, but only in Europe, USA / Canada and Austrila and New Zealand, in Japan you bow and is the same in most Far Eastern nations.

In Britain, British norms take precedence, just as in Japan, Japanese norms take precedence. Or would you have no problem with a British person going to Japan and insisting on shaking hands with the Japanese person because it is their culture? If it's rude for a British person to do that in Japan then it's rude for a Japanese person to bow when they are in the UK?

I think this may help

This isn't misogyny or discrimination - the reasons are the same for both male and female Muslims. Islam discourages un-essential touching or physical contact of the opposite sex, as a sign of modest and respect.

The people saying change 'woman' to 'gay', 'black' etc, are being utterly ridiculous. It is not the same, at all!

I find the fact that you don't understand how it is discriminatory quite disturbing. In the U.K. culturally we shake hands in formal greeting. If you are living in the U.K. and are introduced to someone particularly in a formal business sense it is considered polite to shake hands. To deliberately exclude a women purely because of her sex is misogynistic, discriminatory and rude.

Islam has no priority above the laws regarding women's rights in the UK. Ever.

As a British citizen I will defend your right to have freedom of your own personal beliefs. It is very important to me within my culture that you have this freedom. However I think it is disgraceful that you seek to abuse these freedoms to impose your own beliefs over others. To belittle, disrespect and discriminate.

Your own personal beliefs do not take priority over the legal rights of others to live without discrimination. It has nothing to do with modesty and respect and it is exactly like refusing to shake hands with a black or gay person.

In that case he should have touched his chest in greeting and moved on to the next person. Not made a huge deal out of it.

Being treated differently does not always mean being treated worse, unless its someone ignoring the correct, polite greeting and instead telling you that you are too dangerous or unclean to touch.

It is a purely cultural convention that is adopted by some Muslims. Not true, it's religious, the Prophet saws did not touch unrelated women even when they were pledging allegiance to him.

Waspnest I don't actually care what his reasons are, he wasn't rude about it IMO.

Whisky

Exactly.

If no touching is allowed between people of the opposite sex that aren't married presumably a religious Jew/Muslim should reject any intervention from a medical professional of the opposite sex in a medical emergency that requires touching of the body?

Rudeness is irrelevant - under British law he is discriminatory because he treated someone differently because of their sex. Your views and my views are irrelevant really (thank god).

about you not caring whether he was thinking the 'filthy whore' scenario.

@mothertruck3r Your argument makes no sense. It is fallacious. You have built a straw man unsuccessfully. Your argument would only hold any merit if said Japanese person refused to bow to for example a woman. That is the point of the thread. Please try and understand this very basic point.

Well said whisky. I am sick of pandering to bigotry and misogyny which is excused under the umbrella of religion. Believe what you like but don't you dare try to impose your beliefs on others by treating them as less worthy.

@mothertruck3r

It depends on how a person interrupts religion. Generally the rule of thumb is in life or death situations those rules don't apply as living is the most important factor.

mothertruck3r A persons marital status is actually irrelevant, and the rule does not apply in emergency situations or for non emergency medical situations where no medical professional of the same sex is available. Shaking hands is not an emergency.

"...he is discriminatory because he treated someone differently because of their sex. "

On that basis shall we sue him for discriminating against the men whose hands he shook?

StatelessPrincess

Unfortunately not true. If we are viewing religious practices from a protected characteristic legal viewpoint, then there is no requirement to not touch women.

In the same way that wearing a Hijab is encouraged within Islam, but not mandatory.

A counter-example would be Sikhs recieving religious exemption to wear turbans instead of helmets on motorcycles. This is because wearing a turban is a fundamental aspect of the Sikh faith, for which there can be no exemption.

Good post, whiskybysidedoor.

It's not religious. It's cultural. And that culture is misogynist. Just the average religious person using the lie of "it's my faith" to be a dick.