'I don't shake women's hands'

[canary1]

In a work setting today, a client was seen by four colleagues, 2 male, 2 female. The client shook hands with the two male colleagues at the end, and when I held my hand out in expectation, this is what he said. I know many muslims and never ran into this before, though this is his reason. I'm disgusted at such overt sexism dressed up as religion. I can't say that's just his beliefs any more than I can excuse any other overt discriminatory behaviour. How is this regarded as an acceptable way to behave?

No, there was the case a couple of years ago where the Blackpool B&B refused a gay couple a service as it contradicted their deeply-held Christian beliefs.
This did go to court and the BBers lost. They have no right to withold a service without there being a consequence.

Except that is not what the law says.
We can judge the man, that is fine. But a company can not discriminate on this basis.

MrPan Yes the B&Bers lost. But churches discriminate against gay people. That is legally protected.

ah okay. The institution of 'church' but not it's adherents?

According to some branches of Islamic thought, it's okay for a man to shake an old woman's hand because it's not going to incite passions in either party.

But if it's all about not inciting passions in either party, should a gay Muslim man only shake hands with lesbian women?

It's a minefield!

Hate - then you're as naive as knight. It's incredibly competitive down there. They all want not only the cash but also the referrals. Have I sent the 4 of my friends who got engaged after me and admired my ring to him? That's maths you shouldn't laugh at!

Knight - ah, I see. You'll wriggle around to promote misogyny and the fact that it's just fine to shake hands with a male customer but not his female partner. Good for you.

Have you not noticed that religions are allowed legally to discriminate against gay people?
I don't agree with this by the way, but it is the law.

That's not true. There have been multiple court cases which have confirmed this. A Christian baker who refused to make a gay pride cake, a Christian B&B owner who refused to allow a gay couple to share a room, and a Christian registrar who wanted to be exempt from marrying gay people. All lost and were told if they couldn't provide a service to everybody they should provide it to nobody. See links:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25119158

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/24/born-again-christian-ashers-bakery-lose-court-appeal-in-gay-cake-row

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9870468/Gay-marriage-no-opt-out-for-Christian-registrars.html

Churches are allowed legally to discriminate against gay people, and they do.

But a company can not discriminate on this basis.

Yes they can. Companies can offer the perfectly reasonable alternative of not shaking hands with anybody. If someone refuses to do this and continues only to shake men's hands which is not a religious requirement then they are guilty of totally unnecessary discrimination and could be sacked.

There is no religious requirement to shake men's hands.

'Pink vapours' give me strength.

(Ignoring the manly man who has come to put us all right on this issue)

Surely refusing to shake a woman's hand because both might be so overcome with lust that they DTD on the boardroom table is showing the deepest disrespect to your wife i.e. you can't be trusted not to cheat at every perceived in a man's mind opportunity? The older I get the more I think organised religion of any kind exists purely to find excuses to blame women for some men's apparently uncontrollable lust.

And of course in the OP's situation the man shouldn't have shaken anyone's hand.

I don't shake hands with men and this is for religious purposes .. however I am always polite and explain why

Churches (and all other religious institutions) being exempted from the requirement to provide services like communion and wedding ceremonies to gay couples isn't the same as 'Christians are legally allowed to discriminate against gays' is it?

Rebecca you have accused me of naivety and promoting misogyny. Rude.

Few people also forget to mention its not just Muslim men is both genders of people that follow Islam, Orthodox Judaism and Eastern Orthodox Christians don't like touching the opposite sex.

In Japan its a cultural norm that you do not do physical contact unless you are very friendly with the person.

When does British norms trump everything else? people had the egotistically view that in Business you shake hands, but only in Europe, USA / Canada and Austrila and New Zealand, in Japan you bow and is the same in most Far Eastern nations.

So would it be fine for me to go to Japan and insist on shaking hands? It's my culture.

knight, I think you were very much the person who started any rudeness. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

I would personally try to fall in line with their cultural norms.

If you don't like it, don't post things that come across that way 🤷‍♀️

You leapt to some rather big assumptions about my choice not to buy from someone who chose not to shake my hand. If you really think that was rude, or that it is fine to shake the hand of only one half of a couple, then you're simply not someone whose views I can ever agree with, sorry!

Where I've seen this, the person would usually do something else instead of shaking hands - generally place a hand on his chest and bow slightly instead so you still have a gesture to show respect to the person you've met / who has helped you but you're not shaking hands. I've never seen "sorry I don't shake hands with women" and would be amazed at this - chose something else instead that you can do and show you have basic manners. OP, this guy was just rude.

But presumably the OP's situation happened in the UK (haven't seen anything to say otherwise) so UK norms (and discrimination laws) apply? I agree, in Japan, Japanese norms and laws would prevail.

Yes that was in reply to worrid "why do British norms trump everything?"

Worridmum - surely the answer is that the culture triumphs in its own country? nobody would advocate going to a strict Muslim country or to Japan and complaining because they didn't get a handshake.

But in Britain, that's what we do - so shouldn't we get the same courtesy?

There have been multiple court cases which have confirmed this. A Christian baker who refused to make a gay pride cake, a Christian B&B owner who refused to allow a gay couple to share a room, and a Christian registrar who wanted to be exempt from marrying gay people. All lost and were told if they couldn't provide a service to everybody they should provide it to nobody. See links:

But that isn't the same. These people had to offer the same service to everyone, yes.

But unless a person is actually offering handshakes (as a service) or making it abundantly clear that they are part of a "service package"?