'I don't shake women's hands'

[canary1]

In a work setting today, a client was seen by four colleagues, 2 male, 2 female. The client shook hands with the two male colleagues at the end, and when I held my hand out in expectation, this is what he said. I know many muslims and never ran into this before, though this is his reason. I'm disgusted at such overt sexism dressed up as religion. I can't say that's just his beliefs any more than I can excuse any other overt discriminatory behaviour. How is this regarded as an acceptable way to behave?

I'm sorry most of you don't understand that culture is a complex and intricate thing and are unable to grasp anything out of of your own norms but in Islamic culture it is actually out of respect for women that men and women don't shake hands .
Having said that , muslims living in western countries should also be sensitive to their local cultures where what is respectful in their own culture is deeply offensive to the other .

You want to live in a society that allows personal freedoms, equality, and tolerance? Well then that includes freedom of religion and that should be respected.

I don't think most people on this thread are disputing that. What they are saying is that it comes into conflict with legal areas regarding discrimination and cultural areas regarding rudeness. Therefore he has the option to shake nobodies hand, which fulfills his religious requirement and also respects western law and culture by not discriminating.

His religious scruples are that he does not want to shake hands with women, not that he MUST shake hands with men. Therefore shaking hands with nobody is the only solution. It meets everybody's needs.

I prefer women don't matter. Haven't you had the memo?

Oh, it's only a woman's hand so it's OK because you know when it comes to peoples rights and equality we are way down the bottom of the list hanging out with the dregs at the bottom of the pit. This is how it is and I am SICK of it.

I usd to live overseas where Muslims were one of the main indigenous group. If they had refused to shake my hand I would have respected that in their own country.

We are a secular country now I believe. If I am not allowed to wear a crucifix or bring my catholicism into the workplace then they too have to leave their religion at the door on the way into the office too.

Miserable in British culture it is put of respect for women that they are treated equally to men in the workplace.
Do you respect that?

This happened to me though not in a business setting: location was Northern England thirty years ago.

Two worlds collide.

it is actually out of respect

Hmm, yes. There seem to be an awful lot of things we are told by Muslims are driven by 'respect' for women like the burka which Muslim men choose not to impose on themselves or other men.

Well ,yes Miserable - the OP and a lot of folk seem wishing to take this as a personal insult, when it isn't. Not all Christians behave in exactly the same way - massively not. Not all muslim men behave in the same way.

And this nonsense about 'not respecting UK culture'...I meet lots of people in my work - I don't shake hands wit hall of them on a regualr basis, and IF a woman chose to not shake hands I wouldn't be taking it personally.
Place your easily bruised ego to one side.

Stealth what sort of assumptions have you made about me as a person? Genuinely wondering . Why are you asking me what I respect as a person- are you assuming I'm a Muslim man ?

Miserable - but that does sound like a great way to permit all sorts of practices! "Oh it's just my culture..." Slippery slope when it means you're treating people differently based on something like sex IMO.

But if you're in a country where that is the culture, so be it - you can accept it or you can not go there. Which is why I will never travel to Dubai, for example; there's a lot I've read about the culture there that means I don't want to go.

What I disagree with, is enforcing your cultural beliefs elsewhere, just because they are a tolerant society (or because you are ignorant - see Brits abroad sometimes!)

No. Not at all. But you're suggesting the lack of handshake is cultural. Well the handshake is also cultural.

Why would you assume I think you're a Muslim man? How odd!

It would be very rude to insist and make someone uncomfortable.

Bullshit! He insisted on not shaking hands with the OP and made her uncomfortable. He discriminated against her because of her sex. Why should his culture trump her right not to be discriminated against?

I work for an Israeli company. Most of the directors and senior management who come over are religious. They get sensitivity training from HR to do business in other countries. This includes not discriminating against women and trying to pretty it up as religious rights.

In the case of the man who wouldn't shake my hand, I was the customer, and it cost him a decent sale - we were on Hatton Garden buying a diamond for my engagement ring. We looked politely at his diamonds - and went elsewhere. If you won't shake my hand, I don't want to give you a lot of cash with it, or have your diamond on it either!!

Miserable in British culture it is put of respect for women that they are treated equally to men in the workplace.

Really? Are you serious on that Stealth?

Mrpan as a white professional woman , stealth's comment had me snorting in disbelief .
No doubt more comments about burkas will follow.

Yes Mr pan of course. Why wouldn't I be. I expect to be treated equally and afforded the same courtesies as my male colleagues.

It now wages war across the Middle East and tells Muslim women to take off the hijab whilst telling us bikinis are brill, as is the sexualised objectification of all women. The same women it claims to be equal, the same women who are told all choices are equal and the right to choose is feminist.

Quite the opposite. Western women in bikinis are told they are slags and whores for having the temerity to not want to cover up and allowing some sun on their skin or for wearing, shock horror, a short sleeved t-shirt which might provoke some weak willed man into raping them. All the womans fault of course for being dirty sluts who should be ashamed of having female bodies.

The women in Iran who are protesting against having to wear the hijab have no choice. They are forced to wear it upon fear of prison or death and ironically Iran was once a Zoroastrian country but we can't mention Islamic colonialism when discussing the Middle East can we.

And only yesterday the Home Office was trying to get non-Muslims women to try on the hijab as some sort of push to show it as an item of liberation and tolerance (for "World Hijab Day"), rather than a politicised garment which many people are forced to wear.

Muslim women do this to men and I always think that it's an interesting look for women to tell other women how to behave.

What the hell? Please tell me here I've made a comment about burkhas.
Lovely to hear you're a white professional woman who snorts though.

Well there does seem to be a swivel-eyed focus on the shaking of hands, almost like a 'cultural trip wire' - and any poss explanation outside of 'coz I hate women innit' isn't listened to. The GBP.

British workplace culture is (or should be) about women being equally treated to men. I find it astounding, although I didn't snort, that anyone would think to question that tbh.

That's beyond fucked up.

He probably doesn't enjoy having to serve rude customers like you, Rebecca