'I don't shake women's hands'

[canary1]

In a work setting today, a client was seen by four colleagues, 2 male, 2 female. The client shook hands with the two male colleagues at the end, and when I held my hand out in expectation, this is what he said. I know many muslims and never ran into this before, though this is his reason. I'm disgusted at such overt sexism dressed up as religion. I can't say that's just his beliefs any more than I can excuse any other overt discriminatory behaviour. How is this regarded as an acceptable way to behave?

Fucking Mumsnet! Dont make me laugh. Equality, so long as your not black, muslim and ten other types of different/ Well I wont be bullied and I believe what I believe. So suck it up.

Fuck me I just realised a fellow sane person got her before me. Bonne Chance!

The other thing about liberalism is it underpins western civilization entirely. So that includes such things as slavery, war, Imperialism....and mainstream feminism, equality laws, and laws on acceptable speech. It protects some and excludes others. It now wages war across the Middle East and tells Muslim women to take off the hijab whilst telling us bikinis are brill, as is the sexualised objectification of all women. The same women it claims to be equal, the same women who are told all choices are equal and the right to choose is feminist. It also underpins this idea that in order for women to be equal they must adopt male practices as normative. Ie shaking hands. The demand to shake hands is made. Much like the demand to vote. Both are steps towards equality but one is good, and the other is a complete nonsense. It's no accident that women believe equality looks like adopting male behaviour, because male behaviour is seen as privileged. The more radical position would be to suggest women can be equal and be different.

Whatever! fucking sooo bored

We shake hands, hug and air cheek kiss in my team. Even my Muslim colleague does it. Most of us are either happily mar or in relationships and it has nothing to do with any sexual feelings, just the way it is. Could be influenced by the Mediterranean colleagues we have.
I am not a naturally huggy person but I feel comfortable with it. I would be probably put of by someone who would come up with a statement that certain ways of greetings are for their own gender only.

Mini, I am more concerned with the politically correct liberals who believe that we need to be accepting of other people's beliefs to the point that we tolerate oppressive and isolationist parts of their culture such as forcing women into arranged marriages, Sharia law courts, making them feel unequal to men and at the same time fostering animosity and disdain towards the culture they live in.
I have no problem with niqab, hijab or sheitel if the woman wearing it put it on because she herself wants it but I have a problem with the rejection of standard norms of greeting to satisfy some religious norms which conflict with the former.
The customer insulted the two women and deliberately made them feel uncomfortable.

It utterly wrong but at present, religious rights trump all.

We are choking ourselves on liberalism and as usual, women take the brunt of it

I have had this too and was initially a bit but as my work with the client progressed I realised that he was respectfully listening to my comments and recommendations in a way the 40+ white male clients with him weren't

So . .its all wrong and everyone hates women - they just show it in different ways

It is out of respect for his wife. Many Muslims do this.

If it's seen as cheating I don't think it would be Ok with men only

e had an Ofsted Inspector who wouldn't shake anyone's hand. I presume it was for religious reasons that he couldnt/didn't want to shake women's hands, but it was more appropriate not to shake anyone's hands.

That would be a good work around.

I'd be straight to HR in the Op's situation.

So . .its all wrong and everyone hates women - they just show it in different ways

Yes, sounds about right!

I've never met a muslim man who wouldn't shake my hand like most christians I know don't hate gays.

When someone choose to take their religion to an extreme I find it's out of their own personal prejudices more than religion usually as NO ONE follows their holy book exactly.

There was another similar thread a year or two ago
Utterly disgraceful and if he's a client I'd be discussing with my firm whether it's appropriate to continue with the business arrangement

I’d probably struggle to do business with someone who wanted to force anyone to touch anyone else.

But that's not what people are saying. People are saying that if he believes that strongly then he shouldn't shake anyone's hand whilst in a professional setting avoid discriminating. It's not a difficult leap, and not hard to do, if it really is 'about respect for his wife' then he'd have no problem not shaking anyone's hand wouldn't he? That way he'd avoid inadvertently discriminating too.

Very well put wormy

It utterly wrong but at present, religious rights trump all.

This is absolute nonsense. Religious rights does not 'trump all' and the ECHR did a very good job of balancing this article a few years ago. Read the cases they're quite interesting.

By that logic, If I am a christian boss I can force all my employees to say grace before every meal and pray at least once a day, 'because it's my religious right'.

Yes I wouldn't be impressed

For anyone interested.

www.theguardian.com/law/2013/jan/15/ba-rights-cross-european-court

Religious hatred should be criminalised and disguising it as some sort of feminist issue is utterly odious

Unbefuckinglievable. So someone should get a criminal record for expressing distaste for another's invisible friend or their beliefs?

I swear I've read this exact op before

Shaking hands is just proper business étiquette

In my recent experience there is a shift away from shaking hands in business environments. I certainly don’t need a handshake to feel respected or that proper etiquette has been observed.

Religious rights are enshrined in the 'British values' - mutual respect for and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs and for those without faith.

But as pp have said, this does sit at odds with sex, race, sexual preference discrimination etc. I wonder why religion trumps all?

It's not sexist, I'm Muslim (woman) and much prefer not to shake men's hands. It's not because I think men are inferior, it's because I want to limit physical contact with the opposite sex. However, the attitudes expressed on this thread have meant that I've changed to a Don't offer don't refuse rule.

Yes this exact op comes up from time to time and the usual ignorances on MN are fully displayed.

Peopel of whatever race/creeed/sex/age have a right to choose who they have flesh-flesh contact with - it's common sense and obvious, and that goes for a muslim male, for whatver reason he chooses to express.
To complain is quite pathetic and quite ego-driven. Get over yourself.

eg my wife does not wish to shake anyone's hand. is she being rude? I don't think so. She has a right to do with her hands what she wishes, and clasping someone else's is her right to choose.

Surely one just has to take any reluctance in the spirit in which it is meant? I used to do a lot of work in the Middle East and always used to wait until a hand was offered before shaking. There were some who didn't shake hands; but they were always respectful of me as a professional, shared jokes, sent presents for my child and were much kinder to me than lots of colleagues/clients here who always shook hands. Not shaking hands was, to them, part of an exercise in mutual respect, so that is how I took it. We developed a funny sort of waving and bowing ritual instead