Adult males can now shower with girls at swimming pools

[TheXXFactor]

Swim England has issued new guidance about trans swimmers - link here. Some of it is sensible- I'm sure trans people can feel self-conscious swimming, so trans-only sessions are a good idea (though of course trans people should be able to use the pool at other times too).

What's disturbing though is the section on Environment, which says that trans people should use whichever changing room they prefer. 85% of men who identify as trans have had no surgery, so this means adult men showering & changing with women and girls. How can this be allowed under child safeguarding rules? And what about all the women who will feel unable to swim if they have to change with men - or whose religion does not allow them to do so?

AIBU to think that everyone's needs & comfort should have been considered?

user yes I've heard of this kind of thing as well. I already only use changing rooms with lockable cubicles for this reason.

Target have tried this and the results are in: double to triple the amount of voyeuristic offenses since they made their changing rooms gender neutral.

twitter.com/pauldirks/status/959518142073458689

Happened at my local council sports facility. My friend was showering on her own - old style open communal showers/changing area (just a small area) when a TW came in. She was quite shaken, mortified and upset and later angry. The other women who normally use it weren’t too happy either.

YetAnotherSpartacus

"Actually there are more instances of assault and men photographing women and children in mixed sex spaces and women's changing rooms."

Fair point, not sure it proves that young children should be sent in to change alone in the mens unsupervised though.

And India Willoughby isn’t helping by taunting women today who question or have concerns. I don’t have much issues with IW using these changing rooms as they pass fairly well and the changing rooms are fairly private. The arrogant taunting attitude stinks though.

It’s really not OK that saying ‘anyone can ‘be’ a girl or woman if they say so’ also apparently now means that anyone can now go into girls and womens private spaces because they have decided they ‘are a woman’...

Why would predatory creeps NOT take advantage of this? No subterfuge required any more- just tell ‘em you’re a lady too!

it’s legal now to protect women and girls’ spaces and services only for their use. But organisations are being told by trans-activists that they are ‘transphobic’ and at risk of legal action if they use these laws we already have to protect women and girls. So then you get dangerous policies like this which are ‘ahead of the law’.

If this worries you, please email your local MP to say you don’t agree with gender self -identification being made legal, because they will be the ones making the law on this in future. MPs will get very scared of a big backlash and being called a bigot etc if they think it will lose them votes. They need to know they have backing to oppose legal gender self identification.

Forgot the tweets

The Daily Mail has now picked this up! Would be helpful if pp could comment on it online.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5357509/Swim-England-guidance-trans-swimmers-slammed.html

The comments haven't moved above 3 in many hours. They appear to be advanced moderated.

Either IW is in a locking, individual cubicle in which case the issue isn't nearly the same as flimsy half curtains or communal space (which they obviously know), or they have their camera phone out in a changing room which is against pretty much every safeguarding rule going....

the DM site says that the comments are pre-moderated

Two from Spain and one from the US

Have Target stated they will reverse their gender neutral policy, or do they intend to keep throwing their female customers to the wolves? (Their biggest demographic, you would assume.)

That seems pretty unusual for the DM to premoderate their comments, they don’t usually do that do they?

Suspicious...

Write to swim England as well as to your MP or the next thing you know the law will be changed to keep up with community practice.

Swim England recommends unisex changing villages but these are dangerous for women and girls. After a spate of filming in one customers actually petitioned for safe women's spaces.

Maybe Swim England can say what their priorities are ?

Is it safe guarding of children and young athletes? but a lot of sports have issues there !

Maybe it is a lot easier for them to say they can protect the rights of the trans gender community.

They have failed at safe guarding young people. Shame on Swim England

My local centre is only separate changing rooms for men and women both wet and dry, they are open plan with only 2/3 cubicles so no way enough for everyone when it's busy. DS goes in the ladies at the moment but in August will have to go in men's as he hits 9. I'm not too worried as it's swim lessons he attends and I can ask one of the dads I know to keep an eye on him.

A huge amount of our attendance is Muslim and I can safely say if a TIM adult came in the changing room it would probably clear in seconds! As regards of women only sessions round here the Muslim women actually do have their own sessions purely for them. There is specific local refuge which is for Asian women too. I think there might be ways to exempt on the grounds of faith possibly and I don't think that many TIMs would chance the ire of that community especially when they would have the general women's sessions to keep them occupied!

I do worry about the filming thing as that seems to be on the increase. I'm not easily shockable but I do think this is open to exhibitionists and I wouldn't want that around small children of either sex!

If someone started waving their dick around at the baths I go to, I would go somewhere else or drop swimming. If someone behaved discreetly and went in an out of the changing rooms without displaying their dick I'm not sure I'd care.

gussy

I’m not sure how even the genuine ones can behave discreetly in the open-plan changing areas. We’ve all seen naked bodies in these places, and I don’t believe the women are deliberately flaunting themselves. I just don’t see how this is going to work.

The worlds gone mad

Its pretty optimistic to think you could behave discreetly in our changing rooms. With cramped benches and bright lighting and uninterruped views quite honestly you'd be rubbing elbows let alone just seeing something! The showers although in cubicles the doors are not floor to ceiling, same with the changing cubicles and I believe it's possible for the locks to be opened from the outside if you know how. I've seen people try to undress/dress discreetly but when you're trying to dry yourself it's hard.

I'm not particularly shockable but I would feel slightly uncomfortable and lines can be easily crossed. Who is going to sit in there and police this? Will a member of staff have to do so?

I was thinking about this yesterday as it was busier than usual.

Another woman was getting changed. I studiously kept my gaze on the floor in front of me. I didn't see her getting changed and she had privacy.

But if a male was in the same space as me while I was vulnerable, I'm not sure I could avoid checking now and again to ensure I was safe.

I think it's a shame there's comments on here dismissing that as 'silly'. We live in a world where male violence against women is rife, and a male in a space like that has already crossed a boundary. So who knows how many others would be crossed.

Target tried this and the results are in: double to triple the amount of voyeuristic offenses since they made their changing rooms gender neutral

And we were told it wouldn't happen ...

I think it depends on the set up really. Our local pool is sort of half open plan. The showers are next to the swimming pool and in full view of everyone, so no problem with these being unisex. If you want a ‘full shower’ instead of a rinse there are separate cubicles. For getting changed they ONLY have cubicles and no bench changing areas like I’m some other pools. No one walks around half naked or anything like that, but it’s all unisex. They have larger family cubicles with baby changing inside, my whole family go in there together, including my husband if one is free. It’s only really in this sort of set up that I’d be ok with unisex as there’s plenty of privacy.

It’s only really in this sort of set up that I’d be ok with unisex as there’s plenty of privacy

Are all walls and doors floor to ceiling?

If you can't be discreet and use a private area for changing - the public pool I know that doesn't have a changing village has one - then don't come swimming. Or change with your dick in the place where people with dicks get changed.