Adult males can now shower with girls at swimming pools

[TheXXFactor]

Swim England has issued new guidance about trans swimmers - link here. Some of it is sensible- I'm sure trans people can feel self-conscious swimming, so trans-only sessions are a good idea (though of course trans people should be able to use the pool at other times too).

What's disturbing though is the section on Environment, which says that trans people should use whichever changing room they prefer. 85% of men who identify as trans have had no surgery, so this means adult men showering & changing with women and girls. How can this be allowed under child safeguarding rules? And what about all the women who will feel unable to swim if they have to change with men - or whose religion does not allow them to do so?

AIBU to think that everyone's needs & comfort should have been considered?

Changing areas are unsafe, particularly the male ones and particularly when quiet. If it is quiet I would always suggest you bring your male children into the female area and tell them it is rude to stare when people are changing.

Another thank you to PidgeonPodge. I'm sure any genuine sex-change person would be hyper-aware of awkwardness. The ones I see about town are very self-effacing. I'm sure they've experienced more discomfort in 5 minutes than most of us have in a lifetime.

It is such a shame that a militant handful of people have made a movement out of this and are seeking to cast aside rules which are in place for quite obvious safety reasons.

In the recent Top Shop changing room incident the trans person said he was identifying as a teenage girl that day. I'm sure he was. So let's allow any man who thinks the same the right to mingle with half-clad girls. And anyone identifying as a photographer at the same time...

This doesn't seem like a huge deal to me. The relatively new swimming pool I use has a communal changing village with cubicles, and private or communal showers, depending on what you prefer

Not jumping on this poster but using to illustrate the same point that several people have made.

That's great for YOU but imagine if your local pool or gym had group changing facilities- would that change how you feel about it? (If not then fair enough)
The "I'm alright" attitude to this astounds me - what if you move house or when your daughter moves out of home? Will you care then?

Anyone think if all
of us females woke up tmw &
self identified as men, demanded to be referred to as he, asked for equal pay at work & starting using all the male facilities in all environments there would then be a proper debate?

Something everyone knows except libfems... they'd probably say it was empowering or something.
I've got to say, we don't seem to be seeing as many handmaidens popping up on these threads lately to tell us how transphobic and hateful we're being. Why is that I wonder? Is it because all the things that the nasty hysterical old TERFS have been predicting for the last few years have started to happen?

PidgeonPodge
i so appreciate seeing your posts

arghh21 come on, be serious- you must know that trans men exist? That this isn't a one way street? Of course there are people born female bodied who identify and live as men, ask to be referred to as he, use male facilities etc. Just because the focus on MN is very, very much on trans women and the risks some people feel they pose, it doesn't mean that there are no trans men.

noeffingidea no, it's because a)it's pointless- you can't handle disagreement and b) said disagreement only attracts insults.

arghh21

I think that if we all started using the men’s changing rooms, they’d be quite happy about it.

Changing areas are unsafe, particularly the male ones and particularly when quiet. If it is quiet I would always suggest you bring your male children into the female area and tell them it is rude to stare when people are changing

Actually there are more instances of assault and men photographing women and children in mixed sex spaces and women's changing rooms.

The Daily Mail have picked up this thread...

I see no difference from the unisex changing rooms we suffer at our local pool.

So what are we going to do about this?

Tsk! We are all worried about nothing, because the guide is jsut about "good old-fashioned customer service" and will "benefit all facility users"

I swim very regularly as do my children. There are always changing cubicles and private showers so I really don't see a problem.

Our pool has a large, square, communal shower that everyone uses.

Then ladies changing rooms go off one way

Family changing off another way

And men's off another way.

All are communal other than a few, baby changing cubicles with a small play pen and change table and a couple of disabled changing rooms.

Those who don't want to be seen naked either go at quiet times and pinch a baby change cubicle or get changed in a toilet cubicle.

In 30 plus years of going there I've seen Willys in all shapes and sizes and never had an issue.........im not one for getting needlessly outraged at the sight of a penis tho.

Obviously if anyone in there was behaving in an innapropriate way I'd report it to the desk and the police regardless of their response.

Obviously if anyone in there was behaving in an innapropriate way I'd report it to the desk and the police regardless of their response.

And then they'd probably deny it and make a counter claim of transphobia.

When will people understand that this isn't about trans men and women but about the eradication of women's spaces. Men's spaces aren't being arranged in such a manner. The way it seems is that men's toilets and then women (all women, even ones with a penis).

I genuinely think trans men are going about their lives much more quietly but trans women are so loud, derogatory, inflammatory and in a lot of online cases, outright bullying women to accept them as exactly the same as natal women in all respects.

Actual trans men and women deserve freedom, opportunity and protection. The worry is only with self ID and the issues it brings up.

@Glittertwins well aren't you a lucky one. I'm alright jack. What a shitty attitude. Lots of pools and gyms do NOT have cubicle changing. Why do you only care about yourself? Selfish.

The Daily Mail have picked up this thread...

GOOD.

I don't think we organise legislation on the fact that some people don't mind. If I didn't mind speeding I am not sure people would agree to make it legal.

The "I'm alright" attitude to this astounds me - what if you move house or when your daughter moves out of home? Will you care then?

Agree - posters like this just sound dim. How lacking in imagination do you have to be, not to be able to grasp that circumstances can differ in different places? Or do they only care about problems that affect them personally?

"Excuse me, Madam, can I ask you for a donation to famine relief?"

"Certainly not, I've just had a large fry up"

No need to get shirty and pick up on what I've said - there are others who have said the same.

According to that guidance boobs are so offensive even transmen can't be topless. Why does that not surprise me?

A penis being barely contained by a pair of high leg bikini briefs is perfectly fine though.

And they were picked up on it too. You could have at least read the thread. All is well as long as you personally aren't affected though, cheers for that.

No need to get shirty and pick up on what I've said - there are others who have said the same.

And you all sound as if you don't care what happens to other women/girls, as long as you are ok.