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AIBU?

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Original poster

DD doesn't want to go to church any more

603 replies

jessicabenomi · 04/02/2018 23:18

First-time poster here...

My three dd's have been coming to church with me every Sunday their entire lives (dh doesn't come).

It's increasingly being a struggle to get my eldest dd (aged 14) to come. She always says she has too much homework or she wants to meet her friends. Today after we got back she said that the youth Sunday school was so awful that she never wants to go again and she doesn't believe in God.

She's had one of these anti-church "episodes" (I know that's the wrong word I just can't think of another) every few years, but has always calmed down and come back to church before.

Am I being unreasonable to make her come with me? I don't want to force her if she truly doesn't believe, but my faith is so important to me and my church family have been so supportive at difficult times of my life. I just want her to have that support too.

OP posts:
areyoubeingserviced · 06/02/2018 15:26

I haven’t read the thread.
I was brought up as a catholic, however my mother did not force me to go to church .
I went when I wanted to.
Op, you must allow your dd to make her own decisions regarding her faith.
I say this as someone with a faith

Evelynismycatsformerspyname · 06/02/2018 15:46

Ok blackeyed but atheism is a belief that there is no god while agnosticism is the belief that there is no way anyone could know whether there is a god/ are gods or not, nor anything about what the nature, intent etc of such entities might be should they exist.

Sixcatsandcounting · 06/02/2018 15:52

Haven’t read the full thread but I think YABU. Unless you can’t get childcare I don’t think you should be forcing children of any age to go to church. It is your faith - not theirs. Allow them to make their own minds up. If they gain an interest in religion etc offer them the opportunity to pursue it but until then leave them to make their own minds up about the world. I think if my parents had taken me to church (especially at 14!!!) i’d have ended up resenting them.

She has a life, homework, friends and interests of her own. Learn to respect that.

BlackEyedKid · 06/02/2018 15:55

No. Atheism is a lack of belief in god or gods.

JoeStrummersBullshitDetector · 06/02/2018 15:57

If you make her go, she will only rebel further.

Grace at mealtimes would be my one request of her.

Have you spoken to her about whether church is the issue vs a crisis of faith?

Doremisofarsogood · 06/02/2018 16:17

Haven't read the full thread but me and my siblings were brought up going to church and sunday school with my mum (dad wasn't religious so never went). As we got too old for sunday school we stopped going and mum never forced it. I think she's slightly sad that none of us are actively religious but she understands it's our choice. Forcing her to go will only make her rebel even more.

Clem7 · 06/02/2018 16:50

Most atheists are also agnostics. All agnostics are, by most definitions, either atheists or theists.

Gnostic atheists claim to know there is a God.
Agnostic atheists either don’t believe there is a god or lack belief in a god, but don’t claim to know there isn’t or assert it is unknowable.
Agnostic theists believe in a god, but don’t claim to know there is or asset it is unknowable.
Gnostic theists claim to know there is a god.

Dawkins muddied the waters a bit with his 7 point scale, which I think was unhelpful. Agnosticism vs Gnosticism is a different question from theism vs atheism.

LizardMonitor · 06/02/2018 17:05

I absolutely do not believe there is a god.
If evidence of a God appears I will immediately believe in a God.

What does that make me?

Clem7 · 06/02/2018 17:13

An agnostic atheist, but your agnosticism is weak agnosticism (a strong agnostic would claim its impossible to know whether or not there is a god).

Lizzie48 · 06/02/2018 17:14

@Sixcatsandcounting I think with younger children it's not really a case of 'forcing them to go to church' as such, you just tend to take them wherever you go, whether it's somewhere they want to go or not. They may not want to go shopping with you, but you just take them and they have to go along with it.

DH and I take our DDs to church, unless there is an activity they want to go to, say a party or a Brownies event. I wouldn't make them miss out on something they really want to go. Occasionally one of them will say they don't want to go to church, not because it's church as such, but because they're in the middle of a DVD they like or on their iPad.

Obviously, there is the possibility that one or both of our DDs will decide they don't want to go to church anymore. If that's the case, we will respect their decision.

LizardMonitor · 06/02/2018 17:17

Well, that depends on the evidence that presents itself.

I think it impossible to know NOW (and believe a god to be absent - and that the origins of the universe and life are material processes..), but if a verifiable god appeared to us all with all sorts of proof that could be empirically tested (not by me, by someone who knows what they are doing), then it would be possible to know, wouldn't it?

This is far more complicated than I thought! I thought I was just an atheist!

Dipitydoda · 06/02/2018 17:20

If she was 4 yes but at 14 let her make her own choice. I was very anti church at that age, like many found my way back in later life. You have given her the opportunity to learn about God, it’s up to her to find her own way now

Clem7 · 06/02/2018 17:31

Lizard - your beliefs on whether the question is knowable fall firmly within weak agnosticism. A strong agnostic believes that it’s impossible that we could ever know the answer.

I’m with you on all counts FWIW!

Julie8008 · 06/02/2018 17:34

I dont understand why its ok for the DH not to go to church and he wont be going to hell. But its not ok for DD. Confused

Why would the priest think you had 'failed'? It sounds like failed means failed to brainwash!

jaimelannistersgoldenhand · 06/02/2018 17:52

I think that you should let your dad choose.

Anecdotally, one of my most religious friend is a lady who grew up with Christianity, drifted away then returned to it as an adult in her 30s. Leaving now doesn't mean that she can never return to faith. You could argue that people like my friend will have more faith than someone born into faith because they will have considered things more deeply than a person whose faith is family tradition.

jaimelannistersgoldenhand · 06/02/2018 17:52

Dd not Dad obviously!!

LizardMonitor · 06/02/2018 19:34

Clem; thank you. This is all very interesting and I guess the principle of a/gnostic stretches into many other areas of thought and exploration. I must do some reading.

corythatwas · 07/02/2018 08:16

While there is clearly a lot, a lot, a lot more evidence for Julius Caesar as a historical person than for Jesus, that is because Julius Caesar was an exceptionally bad choice for a comparison. There is about as much as evidence for Jesus as for most people who make it into books on Roman history in the centuries before and after Caesar: the consuls and senators and barbarian chieftains that are mentioned once or twice in a not-exactly-contemporary source and that nobody has any problems with regarding as historical because there is very little at stake.

But obviously, accepting Jesus as a historical person does not lead to proof of his godhead. I do believe that Jesus was the son of God, while I do not believe that Caligula was a manifestation of the goddess Venus. But I am very aware that there is no proof I can advance: this is purely a matter of faith, and if people want to say I am bonkers, there isn't much I can do to stop them. I have to accept that that comes with the territory.

What I will not accept is other people telling me that I must be a homophobe or a creationist or something else that they have decided is part of my faith because of some totally different group of Christians who have partly different beliefs. Bonkers, yes- not a problem. Dinosaur denier- certainly not! And like many other Christians, I do not believe that gay people burn in hell for their sexuality either. If I make it to the other side and find out I was wrong, I shall have to renounce my faith.

Jux · 07/02/2018 09:15

I thought the whole point of belief, of faith, was that that was what it was - belief. Nothing to do with science, evidence or any ideas like that, just faith. You're supposed to make a leap of faith, certainly in the Catholic church you are, and it's probably the same in all other Christian churches, probably all religious/belief systems.

So, faith and science simply do not have fundamental common ground, and cannot be compared. You can ask for evidence until you're blue in the face, but it's missing the point. The point is that belief is not evidence-based, that's why it's belief and not science.

Lizzie48 · 07/02/2018 10:27

@corythatwas I also find it frustrating when I'm lumped together with dinosaur deniers, but sadly so called 'young earthers' have really turned us into a laughing stock in the academic world. I've heard their attempts at scientific arguments and it's nothing short of embarrassing to say the least.

It's ridiculous to think that Genesis 1-3 are meant to be interpreted as literal historical truth. It was actually a polemic against polytheism; you have the heavenly bodies that were worshipped as gods in the Ancient Near East created by God on the fourth day.

It's totally possible to be a Christian and believe that God created the Earth whilst at the same time accepting what scientists tell us about evolution and the dinosaurs. Having faith doesn't mean that you stop using your brain.

BlackEyedKid · 07/02/2018 18:09

Thing is, even Christians can’t always agree about what the bible means.

God apparently is omniscient so he knew in advance how much people would struggle to interpret his book.

Apparently he wants us all to know he exists.

So why didn’t he make his instruction manual easier to decipher and less contradictory?

This is why atheists see the whole thing as so silly.

BlackEyedKid · 07/02/2018 18:12

“Having faith doesn’t mean you stop using your brain”

I think if you have faith in anything - ie believing something WITH NO GOOD REASON TO, just because you like the idea of it, you certainly aren’t using your brain.

Slightlyperturbedowlagain · 07/02/2018 18:15

As an atheist I actively encourage my children to go to church for things like cub church parade etc. Nothing more likely to put them off religion than finding it dead boring Wink

TabbyMack · 07/02/2018 21:36

*There is about as much evidence for Jesus as for most people who make it into books on Roman history in the centuries before and after Caesar
*
Even this isn't true.

Evelynismycatsformerspyname · 08/02/2018 06:44

I don't buy that agnostics have to be atheists or theists.

Agnostic means you believe it is impossible to know.

Why then insist agnostics must also believe there is/are or isn't/aren't a god, or gods?

That actually makes very little sense.

I believe it is impossible to know. That's it. I believe all the established religions are man made but whether some entity or entities that loosely coincide with a human idea of god exist or not is unknown and unknowable.