DD doesn't want to go to church any more

[jessicabenomi]

First-time poster here...

My three dd's have been coming to church with me every Sunday their entire lives (dh doesn't come).

It's increasingly being a struggle to get my eldest dd (aged 14) to come. She always says she has too much homework or she wants to meet her friends. Today after we got back she said that the youth Sunday school was so awful that she never wants to go again and she doesn't believe in God.

She's had one of these anti-church "episodes" (I know that's the wrong word I just can't think of another) every few years, but has always calmed down and come back to church before.

Am I being unreasonable to make her come with me? I don't want to force her if she truly doesn't believe, but my faith is so important to me and my church family have been so supportive at difficult times of my life. I just want her to have that support too.

We're not in agreement.

No, Pengggwn, I don't think that is going to be possible until you can explain how the lack of evidence of the existence of God is somehow "better" than the lack of evidence of the existence of Santa. Zero is still zero, either way.

@AgathaF

you've not said what her dad makes of all of this, and of you forcing her to attend when she doesn't want to? Does he voice an opinion on it?

He doesn't get involved - he's indifferent to religion, rather than passionately opposed to it (like many in this thread). He's always left the dc's religion to me.

I'm religious but I still think you shouldn't force her to go. God has chosen to give us free will - so why force her to worship him when he himself isn't forcing her to?

Same as my father, OP, and I almost resent him MORE than I do my mother for those many many wasted years of my precious young life he could have saved me from, stuck in a boring church, AND I was sent to a convent catholic school to ram it all in ever more so.

I said almost.

I'm an athiest. All those years of bible study helped with that!

You are not listening. The youth are leaving religion in droves because we have more knowledge now than ever. Religion/god(s) simply make no sense.
Be kind to your daughter and set her free.

Then maybe question yourself, and why the views of some old congregation matter more to you than your own daughter(s).

If ever the term 'Christ on a bike' was appropriate, it's this thread.

OP, have you decided how you will keep up appearances in church?

I don't see how you can make her go if she doesn't want to, it's not like you can pick her up and strap her into the car to go.

She's given you a reasonable excuse for not going, please respect that.

My husband isn't religious but I don't believe he'll go to hell because he is a good person and lives his life according to Christian moral values, even if he doesn't believe they come from the same source as me.

I'm not religious but I grew up attending church, many members of the clergy in my wider family and consequently have had & been exposed to a lot of conversations on the topic. I'm not particularly interested in getting into the row for / against religious belief that has some posters here so impassioned but I thought someone should pick up on what you've said above.

Do you mean that your husband believes that Jesus was the son of God who died on the cross and came back to life, and also that your husband has a personal relationship with him/them? But that he chooses to practise or exercise those beliefs privately rather than in the public forum that is church? Or do you mean that he isn't a bad person, doesn't commit too many sins, gives to charity, helps others, is a loving father & husband, is respectful to others etc etc etc?

Because if it is the former, then according to your stated beliefs, you're right, he will go to heaven despite his non attendance at church. But if, as I suspect, it is the latter, you are wrong. It seems likely that (to be fair like so many other churchgoers) you have missed the point of your own teachings. It's not about going to church / keeping the priest happy / making donations / doing good deeds or living to whatever 'Christian moral values' are. Eternal life, as you subscribe to it, is conditional on faith alone. You can be a bastard mass murderer who never attended church a day in his life - those things will not stop you entering the kingdom of heaven. You seem to have misunderstood some fundamentals of the Christian faith and the Methodist denominational teachings. Rather than consulting the vicar / whatever (seriously to all the pedants / troll hunters... it's just a difference the terminology!) about your dd, I would ask him to clear up this issue. Ask him specifically about your husbands case.

As for your question, of course you are being unreasonable, but you know that by now.

Hes always left the dc's religion to me

This comment further exemplifies the misunderstanding I outlined above. Your children's religion is not something you have, or have ever had, any control over. You have, thus far, been able to mandate their attendance at church. It is hopefully becoming clear now that this is a behaviour which is not necessarily tied to a faith of any kind.

I suppose football would be a good analogy here. If you were a passionate supporter of team X you might take your dc along to games. You might talk incessantly about the rising and falling fortunes of said team, fork over your disposable income for season tickets and horrid polyester shirts, rejoice in their successes, weep when they let in goals etc etc. And all of this might produce dc who shared your views. But if for whatever reason it did not, say they just didn't care about team X, merely shrugging at the news of promotion or relegation, scrolling through their phones whilst you're pinned to the screen on match day, hoping you don't notice... if THAT is your dc, it doesn't matter how many more games you drag them to or how many conversations you have about it or how much it matters TO YOU. They're not a fan of the x's. They're not a supporter. The belief in the significance of it just isn't there.

What mikesh said times a hundred. Faith is a personal commitment, it's not a choice others make for you. You can make you DC go to swimming lessons because that is a life skill but you can't make her believe in god however important that belief is in your life. Frankly it is shocking how little understanding you seem to have of what religious faith involves.

Teenagers are like cats; they have ways of making you wish you hadn't tangled with them. One fine day OP your DD will go with you and sit there, face like thunder, arms folded, glaring at everyone when she stands up, not joining in the hymns and prayers, leaving you thoroughly embarrassed, the experience ruined for you, and if you take her to task she will say I did as you said, I went to church and you will be on the back foot.

You read it here first.

A previous poster said it best. Faith is just that. You have or you dont.

It is like relationships. You feel it or you dont. You cant force feelings for someone you dont have feelings for.

If she’s questioning her faith you’re not going to be able to change her mind by telling her she MUST believe.

Another voice to add to the one asking you to leave it. If you force it now you will push her away. I'm afraid what others will think of you will tell you a lot about whether they are Christian in thought and word as well as deed.

She's 14. She's got a mind of her own. Respect it.

I say this as a Vicars daughter, now living a faith free life and somewhat estranged from my family over it - they remain very religious and do not respect my choices not to be in the faith. Their loss, not mine.

Teenagers are like cats; they have ways of making you wish you hadn't tangled with them.

This.

They are also very very good at sniffing out hypocracy and incredibly judgemental about it. She will realise that you are not making her go to church because you care about her immortal soul or because you think it is nice for her to be part of a community but because you don’t want to lose face in front of your friends.

Lizzie - that’s bollocks.

God gives instructions for exactly how hard you can beat your slaves. He doesn’t say “Don’t keep slaves”. How hard would that have been really? Hmm? It would have been FAR less effort than all the rules about what you can do with them.

As for letting them go after 7 years - well whoopee shit! How marvellous! That’s lovely. Ffs. How about you’re my slave for 7 years?! 🙄

Mumsnet is a rubbish place to come for advice about church. Seriously, what were you thinking, OP?

We’ve never really had trouble keeping our teens in church. My eldest was desperate to play Sunday football, but he went to church on his own to the evening service.

The biggest concern to me from the OP is that the Sunday offering for young people is not good enough.

They need to get their act together to provide what young people want, with young people designing their own group.

Or go to a church with a meaningful youth ministry.

Ok, @BlackEyedKid yes you're right, but that was written 3,000 years ago, so I'm not going to spend time worrying about it. In the New Testament Paul says, 'There's no slave, no free, no male, no female.' I'm happy with that. On the basis of that, Christians like William Wilberforce committed their lives to getting slavery banned.

She has to make her own choice. I think the job of a parent in this situation is to keep on loving and supporting her as she considers what she does believe.

I will say, as someone brought up in a non faith home, my parents' ridicule, hostility and opposition to my choosing faith still hurts today, decades later.

Don't be like that with her OP. Respect her right to choose. After all, God does!

I haven't read the whole thread.

OP I'm a Christian. You can't force your daughter. She has to find her own way. She has the God given right to choose her own way.

I would say, keep talking to her, keep listening to her and don't force her.

Tabby an agnostic is just someone who doesn't discount the possibility that a god or god's may exist, whilst also acknowledging that there is currently no way of knowing whether such entities exist, let alone whether any existing religion has guessed correctly about its or their nature.

An atheist out and out declares there is no god.

The two are not the same. An agnostic does not, as you imply, agree that there is a god or god's but decline to worship it or them.

Excuse the stray autocorrect apostrophe please!

Another one here who was forced to go every Sunday for longer than I wanted to!

Grew up going to a catholic primary school. It wasn't really any different to any other school in all honesty but all the families attended the same church on sundays. Was also a laid back family church so nothing over the top or overbearing. I never used to want to go but enjoyed it when there, going into the kids room and doing activities each week as was with all my friends. As I hit teens or the year or two before that, I didn't want to go. My mum tried to force me to keep going for a good year or two and over that time I resented the whole thing even more. She finally let me stop at around 14. I now do not believe, or even entertain the thought of believing anything to do with religion. I'm just thankful my mum didn't try to carry on forcing me as we are very close and it would have only strained our relationship more

Flip it on it's head op, would you be happy to go once a week somewhere where a large group of people told you how bollocks religion is, and how there's no such thing as a god and it's all made up? That wouldn't support your beliefs, just like church doesn't for your dd.

Evelyn - an atheist does not necessarily claim there is no god although some atheists may indeed do that.

Atheism is a response to the claim that there is a god - ie a lack of acceptance of that claim as true.

Saying “I do not believe that god exists” is NOT the same as stating “No god exists”.