To think we should all be paying attention to the facts about Andi Dier (Rose McGowan)?

[CAAKE]

Yes, another trans thread so I know many of you will automatically say I am BU. But this is important, I promise.

Rose McGowan was involved in what can be politely called a "verbal exchange" with an aggressive and antagonistic transwoman at a book signing last week. Rose retaliated verbally and the person was removed from the building. You can watch it here:

twitter.com/popcrave/status/959218557946155008

Or just google/YouTube "Rose McGowan Barnes and Noble".

The person shouting at Rose (while she was reading from her new book about the rape and abuse she has experienced at the hands of male predators) has been identified as Andi Dier, a trans activist and campaigner. Rose is suffering a huge backlash; various venues have publicly stated that they are pulling bookings for future book tour dates citing her transphobic views. Consequently, she has now cancelled all remaining public appearances.

It has come to light that Andi Dier has a history of sexual assault with minors; young women have come forward saying Andi assaulted them at the age of 12/13/14. In addition, this Twitter thread details some of the paedophilic, fetishistic pornographic content Andi has posted online.

Warning ⚠️
This twitter link contains pornographic content that may be very upsetting to some. It is most certainly NSFW!!
twitter.com/mermaidradfem/status/959874205209776128

AIBU to think that all kinds of people, everywhere, should be alarmed that such a vile, abusive person has been able to get away with publicly attacking Rose, who precipitated the downfall of Weinstein and who was the first spark of the #MeToo movement?

A rapist standing up and shouting at a rape survivor to stop thinking about herself and do things for him and being cheered on by women who I'm sure would call themselves feminists is utterly chilling.

I know there are real transwomen, but trans activists urgently need to learn to differentiate between the genuine cases, and abusive men who want protection from being punished for their crimes against women/children or get a thrill from dressing in suspenders and red lipstick or entitled and narcissistic men who discover they can get limitless attention and sympathy from young women if they put on some lipgloss and earrings before they meet. I wouldn't be surprised if there have been some incidents, but like the Occupy movement, it will be covered up for the "greater good" - which is platforming arrogant men who like getting off on the way they are manipulating impressionable girls...

Thinking of "another outlet", someone posted a link to an alternative to Amazon which is basically a mail-order firm run in partnership with local bookshops - does anyone know what it is? I can't remember.

It's Hive books I think?

Thanks!

I think some people are in such a rush to be seen as progressive that all common sense goes out of the door, I know I was one of these people.

I think it’s a nice thing to be empathetic and inclusive but it shouldn’t come at the expense of other people.

I've just ordered her book in support as I've been appalled to read about what happened at the book reading. It's scary to see where we might be headed as a society. I've never identified as a feminist but am definitely starting to change my viewpoint now.

Maybe I should don my hard hat, but as a G (in LGBT), the more I read and see about trans activism, the more I think that T should separate from LGB. I just don’t think the two groups have shared goals now.

Pavlovian you're not the first person in the LGB community I've heard say that, and I doubt you'll be the last.

As soon as TRAs started with their spiel about "your genital preferences are transphobic", I think a split between the LGB and the T bits was pretty much inevitable.

Wow, thanks Juzza... speechless tbh.

That guy with the gun...

Sorry, should have specified that I meant from the link you posted.

Pavlovian no hard hat needed here.

I'm seeing one of my L friends this week. I'm pretty confident which mast she'll be nailing her flag to - I'm guessing cotton ceiling would have been her trans peak moment.

I think there are some very disingenuous people (well men) who are attempting to piggyback on the support and validity of the LGB movement, whilst throwing pretty much everyone under the same bus.

Am in the B.
The only time we now hear about the LGB on the media, is by some spokesperson who says some guff about it to validate whatever shit they're going to spout, and then gets straight onto 'trans rights,
Harassment, oppression, death' with a sorrowful face.
I often wonder what living in America is like with this shitshow going on, with gun laws being what they are. If I was a feminist over there I'd be terrified to open my mouth.

I’ve never really understood why T is in with LGB.
LGB is about love and sexual attraction.
T is about something completely different.

I can understand why it started off as an obvious addition. If you watch any documentaries about 80s/90s era LGB scene and activism the T were just gay men who were very feminine, dressed in female attire and/or performed drag.

I realised this after watching Paris is Burning and the Martha P Johnson documentary. Very few of them I think considered themselves as other than gay men even the small number that went on to get surgery.

Back then those men were at an increased risk of violence due to the climate of homophobia in general. I believe transphobia wasn't a known term then or in anyway distinct from homophobia. I'm guessing the T was added to recognise the extra visible oppression those men faced.

I'm willing to stand corrected on any of this of course but it's just my take on how and why the T was added.

I'd recommend anyone interested watch Paris is Burning, I found it very interesting. It's still on UK Netflix.

Currently watching Citizen Rose, it’s on sky in demand if you search it.

I've been spending a lot of time on twitter and I think it's very telling where the anger is directed.
Anyone genuinely concerned about transwomen's safety, would be calling out the men who hurt them and getting angry with the endless MRAs on twitter, not targeting rape survivors.
They'd be getting angry and talking about the Weinsteins not the McGowans.
The fact that TRAs are trying to make this the fault of 'cis white feminists' instead of actual rapists and murderers says absolutely everything.

I also struggle with how meaningful it might be to "No True Trans" towards Andi by suggesting that he is in some way not indicative of what trans people are like. NATALT, of course, but he's not that much of an outlier, and the hordes of people defending his point definitely aren't. He's very much of a piece with the mainstream of vocal transactivists. It would be great if we could separate out the likes of Andi from the nice, normal, quietly-getting-on-with-life trans people, but can we do that? I'm not sure.

No, because the current guidelines being followed by organizations, the trans activist movement and its adherents, and the proposed changes to the GRA make no such distinction. I understand why people want to, because they want to protect people who they know who're trans who they've never known to act like Dier and because it feels unkind to criticize people who're unhappy with their lot in life, but Dier is not in any way unusual and would be seen as a trans woman in every situation in which it matters. This is not an outlier. This is exactly the kind of person who's steering both cultural and legal changes. Old-school transsexuals are now essentially irrelevant within the trans activist movement, and the fetishists and MRAs are running the show.

This is not an outlier. This is exactly the kind of person who's steering both cultural and legal changes. Old-school transsexuals are now essentially irrelevant within the trans activist movement, and the fetishists and MRAs are running the show.

This is absolutely true and it's fucking terrifying.

This is not an outlier. This is exactly the kind of person who's steering both cultural and legal changes. Old-school transsexuals are now essentially irrelevant within the trans activist movement, and the fetishists and MRAs are running the show.

This is absolutely true and it's fucking terrifying.

YY

Yes, you've guessed it, he blames "The TERFs" for all his current woes. Apparently they want him to go to prison and/or become homeless and get raped or killed. They want to force him back into sex work.

twitter.com/deercr0ssing/status/959954255753957381

twitter.com/deercr0ssing/status/960473136314580992

Agree, kittens. When I said “i’m not sure if we can” [separate out the “true trans”], I’m almost certain that we can’t.

Why would a radical feminist want anyone to go into prostitution? What a fatuous thing to say. He hasn’t the first idea what radical feminism is (not that most people who sling round the meanie TERF trope do- he’s far from alone there)

The only place I want him to go is "away".