To think we should all be paying attention to the facts about Andi Dier (Rose McGowan)?

[CAAKE]

Yes, another trans thread so I know many of you will automatically say I am BU. But this is important, I promise.

Rose McGowan was involved in what can be politely called a "verbal exchange" with an aggressive and antagonistic transwoman at a book signing last week. Rose retaliated verbally and the person was removed from the building. You can watch it here:

twitter.com/popcrave/status/959218557946155008

Or just google/YouTube "Rose McGowan Barnes and Noble".

The person shouting at Rose (while she was reading from her new book about the rape and abuse she has experienced at the hands of male predators) has been identified as Andi Dier, a trans activist and campaigner. Rose is suffering a huge backlash; various venues have publicly stated that they are pulling bookings for future book tour dates citing her transphobic views. Consequently, she has now cancelled all remaining public appearances.

It has come to light that Andi Dier has a history of sexual assault with minors; young women have come forward saying Andi assaulted them at the age of 12/13/14. In addition, this Twitter thread details some of the paedophilic, fetishistic pornographic content Andi has posted online.

Warning ⚠️
This twitter link contains pornographic content that may be very upsetting to some. It is most certainly NSFW!!
twitter.com/mermaidradfem/status/959874205209776128

AIBU to think that all kinds of people, everywhere, should be alarmed that such a vile, abusive person has been able to get away with publicly attacking Rose, who precipitated the downfall of Weinstein and who was the first spark of the #MeToo movement?

Yep in my teenage wisdom it was funny as hell. Not so much now!!

I will be buying Rose McGowan's books as soon as possible.

I am not going to be defined in relation to a man who thinks he's a woman.

I want this on a tee shirt.

I’m sure there are many men who don’t want women in male changing rooms etc. Who don’t want a relationship with someone with a penis. I’m sure there are gay men who don’t want relationship with people with vaginas.

What is the insulting term for them?

I've noticed this morning there's a number of trans identifying males (so would have been called trans women) coming out on twitter to say they completely reject the current trans ideology and now call them selves TiMs, completely acknowledging the fact they're male (beyond the few I knew about, Miranda Y and Hope for example.)

This has cheered me up no end.

Simon.

Owen Jones.

I'll be buying her book now, and following her on as much social media as possible.

Trigger warning!

Look what this fucking RAPIST has written:
pbs.twimg.com/media/DVLfCM2VMAE9mEc.jpg
He should probably be in jail and I bet that is why he thinks Rose should shut up about rape and care about TIMs in male prisons instead.

Ekphrasis Little Owen Jones

Andi Dier is an absolutely poisonous arsehole of a person.

Whoops. Of course.

I like to think that each comment is just one Tweet closer to peak transing at least one other person, and hopefully more.

"It just seemed so male - "I don't give a fuck about your rape, what are you doing for ME?!" (I'm paraphrasing but that's what it comes down to.)" yes! So entitled, so selfish. I'm another that had not as yet commented on trans threads/issues. I've a couple of trans friends but they would NEVER support or condone such behaviour or views. To verbally attack a victim in such an aggressive public way is utterly disgusting!

I've followed rose for a long time. She is amazing and strong and determined. I have never known her been anything but supportive of lgbt rights and even in this exchange she doesn't deny this idiots identity but instead says it is happening to ALL women and needs to stop.

On Twitter she seems most hurt that her own people - publicists etc - didn't support her. I'd have sacked them and hope she has! Security were woefully slow in reacting, given the nature of the event they should have been ready to deal with Rose being attacked/challenged.

"YANBU. Men can get away with anything at all now - violence, burglary, rape, child porn - if they say they are women. It’s a new victimhood cloak and it’s being abused mercilessly by scumbags like this man." I agree and I wish true trans people could see how much this is DAMAGING their rights, their cause.

I do believe it is entirely possible and clear there is a core of men CLAIMING To be trans who actually are NOT who are using it to gain access to victims and that ultimately will cause a backlash against what I consider to be genuinely trans people. I hope anyway.

I'm struggling to understand how people get to the point of actively defending this person.

At absolute best, Andi showed up at an event that had nothing to do with what Andi was angry about and started yelling at a rape victim.

That's not behaviour to be proud of, to defend. That's not what Rose was there for. At best, Andi was trying to stop Rose doing what she wants to do. Already on shaky ground.

At worst, Andi is guilty of what he has been accused of, in which case, his supporters would be defending a sexual abuser's right to shout at a sexual abuse victim because he doesn't want her, or anyone like her - including his own victims - to have a voice. That's some dark stuff.

I don't get how you could do that and not pause and think "hang on a minute. This isn't right. I seem to have found myself defending aggression towards women by suggesting she deserves it, and suggesting that women can't talk about rape without also talking about trans identifying males". Would you not wonder how your progressive politics had led you to that point? Or would you be so invested that there is really no way to row back from it, and if you're in, you're ALL in? I find that quite terrifying.

I also struggle with how meaningful it might be to "No True Trans" towards Andi by suggesting that he is in some way not indicative of what trans people are like. NATALT, of course, but he's not that much of an outlier, and the hordes of people defending his point definitely aren't. He's very much of a piece with the mainstream of vocal transactivists. It would be great if we could separate out the likes of Andi from the nice, normal, quietly-getting-on-with-life trans people, but can we do that? I'm not sure.

I hope Janice Turner writes about this

I hope she sees this thread and realises that she has a lot of support from ordinary women. I am very grateful for those women in the public eye who have influence and are saying no to this batshit insanity.

The number of transgender males who are also sex offenders is alarming, and it is truly sickening that some women are prepared to defend rapists and sex offenders against their innocent victims.

The language of the articles surrounding this attack on Rose McGowan have annoyed me.

A google search brought up Fox New's "Rose McGowan gets into shouting match with transgender woman" - no she didn't "get into" a shouting match.

A trans activist turned up to scream abuse at a woman speaking out against male violence and the woman was let down by security staff, maintained her composure for as long as possible with respectful answers, and then finally told the abusive shit to fuck off.

And then from the Daily Fail "Rose McGowan has on-stage melt down at Barnes and Noble" - again, no. Fuck off Fail with this shit.

Rose McGowan was at work, she stayed calm and composed for as long as anybody should be expected to when she was being screamed at in this way, and was then expected to stay in the spot-light and carry on as though nothing had happened.

I'm sick of this being made out to look like she was willingly involved in this and is somehow transphobic (shouting match with) or unstable (melt-down). There was only one unstable shouter having a melt down in that exchange and it wasn't Rose McGowan.

She was at work, doing a book reading. Someone came and screamed at her. She was calm and reasonable but visibly shaken, and well within her rights to tell that person to fuck off. Stop with the headlines that make it look like she played a part in this and is somehow in the wrong for it.

Yeah the media is not helping. I just saw a video on the BBC about this issue, thought I'd watch. It mentioned the attack on feminists by transgender activists at Hyde Corner. Only it described it as a a fight between two groups after tensions ran high, not as an attack by biological men on women.

It's always men attacking women.

I think that women in the public sphere need to have a damned good look at themselves for supporting this. There are far too many women Labour MPs involved for instance. Thank goodness for those who buck the trend.

Datun Rose called that man sister and said yes, transwomen are women.

It's not enough, because it didn't lead to her being dominated by him.

So he immediately, and instinctively, ups the ante.

Thank you for explaining this so clearly.

I did think at the time, when he was demanding to know what she'd done for transwomen "Well, she's denying material reality for you, that's a pretty big step!"

Another one who has reached peak trans. I know a number of trans people IRL and they are lovely and normal, but there seems to be a definitely large segment of abusive assholes online intent on erasing women from debate about gender.
The Andi Diers thing is bizarre and one hell of an eye-opener. Anyone who defends a sexual predator shouting at a sexual assault survivor is absolutely trash.

I bought Rose's book on Kindle last night and read the whole thing in one sitting. It was definitely worth reading.
I should probably mention that her reviews on Amazon.com (not .uk) appear to be taking a dive as trans activists are using them to throw more abuse at her.
If you've read it, it might be worth putting your own review up to counteract the hate, and report the abusive ones to Amazon.

www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B0777JKCG4?tag=mumsnetforum-21

The reviews in the UK Amazon are much better. I shall be buying from another outlet though.

I'm amazed at the backlash against Rose McGowan over this.
You'd think that even the TAs would have their heads in their hands saying "oh no" and distance themselves.

Can you only leave a review on Amazon if you have purchased the product? If so at least she earns some money from their vitriol.

Reviews with "Verified Purchase" are left by people who have purchased the product.

If you look on Amazon US, all the 1 star reviews have been left over the past week and none of them are indicated as being "Verified Purchase".

I don't really understand why they allow non verified reviews under any purchase. Seems obvious it would be open to abuse.