To think we should all be paying attention to the facts about Andi Dier (Rose McGowan)?

[CAAKE]

Yes, another trans thread so I know many of you will automatically say I am BU. But this is important, I promise.

Rose McGowan was involved in what can be politely called a "verbal exchange" with an aggressive and antagonistic transwoman at a book signing last week. Rose retaliated verbally and the person was removed from the building. You can watch it here:

twitter.com/popcrave/status/959218557946155008

Or just google/YouTube "Rose McGowan Barnes and Noble".

The person shouting at Rose (while she was reading from her new book about the rape and abuse she has experienced at the hands of male predators) has been identified as Andi Dier, a trans activist and campaigner. Rose is suffering a huge backlash; various venues have publicly stated that they are pulling bookings for future book tour dates citing her transphobic views. Consequently, she has now cancelled all remaining public appearances.

It has come to light that Andi Dier has a history of sexual assault with minors; young women have come forward saying Andi assaulted them at the age of 12/13/14. In addition, this Twitter thread details some of the paedophilic, fetishistic pornographic content Andi has posted online.

Warning ⚠️
This twitter link contains pornographic content that may be very upsetting to some. It is most certainly NSFW!!
twitter.com/mermaidradfem/status/959874205209776128

AIBU to think that all kinds of people, everywhere, should be alarmed that such a vile, abusive person has been able to get away with publicly attacking Rose, who precipitated the downfall of Weinstein and who was the first spark of the #MeToo movement?

Most likely serious @elendon.

The crazy knows no bounds.

See that's the bit is totally baffling me now. I have gay friends who campaigned for gay marriage...they literally wanted what us 'straight' folk take for granted. Nothing more, nothing less. I assumed (naively now I see) that transgender folk wanted the equality within their chosen gender not to create their own subcategory within umbrella genders!!!

I have never openly thought 'you transphobic wanker' but have in the past wondered why people can't just let others live their lives in whatever gender they feel is them. I will hold my hands up in apology for every time i have wondered this, because now i get it

@mustbemad I came into this section about 6 years ago talking about 'cis privilege'.

I peaked shortly after.

I know one person who is transgender, & she just wants to be allowed to be who she perceives herself to be, going quietly about her day. I honestly think like some OTT feminists, that many trans activists will push this too far

YreneTowers, mustbemad17

Cis and terf are labels generally directed at women, not men. Allthough apparently, technically they apply to both.

Terf was initially applied to feminists, because they were the first ones to spot the misogyny underlying the issue. Their radar being fairly well honed.

Cis, is from a scientific term, but is meant to mean on the same side as.

The explanation, which sounds reasonable when you first hear it, is that if your inner gender identity aligns with your sex, then you are cis As opposed to trans, when it doesn't.

Except, very few women believe in an actual inner gender identity. The existence of lady brains and male brains. Gender, as recognised in a societal sense is stereotypes.

Women are nice, sweet, nurturing, available for sex, homemakers, irrational, fluffy, decorative, emotional, etc.

Men are strong, logical, rational, leaders, incisive, powerful, not empathetic, unemotional, etc.

The effect of which is that women are better at housework, raising children, taking care of elderly relatives, writing the Christmas cards, and looking stunning at all times.

Men are better at running countries, making decisions, making money, being Important.

All stereotypes. None of which are innate, otherwise all woman would display them and so would all men.

Feminist analysis says that it is these stereotypes which have, in the past, prevented women from voting, being allowed to have an education, be elected to public office, work outside the home, have a political voice, manage their own money, etc.

Rape within marriage, was only made illegal in the early 90s for instance. Because it was considered appropriate for women to provide sex on demand, however coercive. A particularly nasty stereotype that frames women as having no say, and men as having supreme entitlement.

Whether you agree with feminist theory or not, I don't think it's difficult to see how gender, far from being something that we all identify with, is something that is on a hierarchy that disadvantages women.

So claiming that if you are not transgender, you must be accepting of the gender stereotypes typically assigned to your sex, (cis) is wrong. And infuriating.

Especially as, one of the stereotypes, that women shouldn't have a say, is the one that is currently being relentlessly enforced.

If any of the other acronyms are muddying the waters, this thread breaks down quite a few of them and explains the background.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

thefederalist.com/2018/02/03/rose-mcgowan-punished-refusing-harassed-trans-activist/

@mustbemad can you define OTT feminists? It's not feminists harming the lives of transwomen who want to get on with their lives.

Humphriescushion I sent an email expressing my anger and disgust at Rose McGowan's treatment to a venue that cancelled her appearance because of the Dier incident.

Another MNer very kindly posted the address. It's [email protected] if you want to add one of your own.

Given what we know about Andi Dier and others like him spare a thought for female prisoners who are being forced to share facilities now in Canada.

If Andi was Canadian and convicted of the sex crimes he was accused of he would go straight to a female prison. Self ID laws would see the same happening in this country.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3156012-Canada-to-allow-inmates-to-be-housed-according-to-identity

And yes, cis is now used as an insult.

As soon as you hear it, it's a red flag.

I am a woman.

I am not going to be defined in relation to a man who thinks he's a woman.

My definition is not dependent on being relative to his.

Ffs.

Men are rarely referred to as cis unless they are gay men. It's a word with a very loaded agenda behind it.

LadyBalls i don't meant OTT feminists have harmed this issue, I mean that sadly there are OTT feminists who imo do no favours to feminists fighting for equality. In the same way, we now seem to have OTT transgender activists who are actually harming the cause instead of helping it. If that makes sense???

Datun your explanation of the terms makes perfect sense, thank you.
It reminds me of the Harry Enfield sketch with the couples eating dinner; they show a male's brain as being compartmentalised & capable, & a woman's full of loose ends & mismanaged thoughts. Never really thought about that in it's true context before

If I were Rose I would be retweeting all those posts. He's a sick fuck.

My opinion is that transsexuality is a genuine dysmorphic mental illness which affects a microscopic percentage of the population. Statistically insignificant. But it has been hijacked in the last few years by those of sick predilections as a way of operating out in the open. The vast majority of "trans" people are now of this latter type. Fetishists and paedophiles using the glamour and cachet of "being trans" to gain access to vulnerable men, women and children.

Added to this are the children and teens who, unhappy with themselves for other reasons, latch on to the idea that they might be trans and find that a comforting and cool identity to adopt. It's nothing less than child grooming by these activists and as parents we must police against it.

I didn't think it was possible to be peaked any further.

I felt Rose handled it well even if the individual was a decent person but this is sick.

I worry there's a lot being hidden behind the guise of trans. The puberty blocker potential link to peadophiles had simply not occurred to me.

So glad my phone doesn't recognise that word

I agree @SimonBridges - in this case, there isn't much material to work with in order to build a "reasonable" argument in favour of Andi.

Glad to see some posters saying this issue has opened their eyes. Go check out the feminism chat boards next, there's no going back from peak trans.

I would love to know where exactly this figure of trans people experiencing higher level of sexual assault comes from?

According to a US transgender survey, 47% of trans people are likely to be sexually assaulted in their lifetime.

I am really struggling to see how this is likely to be higher than female rates, especially without any hard evidence. As a female I have suffered sexual assault and my experiences make me believe that you would struggle to find a female that hasn't experienced sexual assault in some form.

This absolutely should not be a pissing contest. But turning into one (and in my mind based on false ideas) is completely detrimental to helping to put an end to this level of abuse.

Scatterolight, spot on.

Can I ask respectfully that you do not put @ in front of my name. It means I get an email update.

Its bullshit @Mreva. It’s like the Stonewall stat that gets trotted out where half of trans teens have attempted suicide. What they don’t mention is that the sample size was 27.

Yanbu

Fully supportive of Rose in this

Will buy her book (if i can find it anywhere but on amazon)

Elendon, you can turn the notification setting off, I think in the settings bit of the desktop site. There was a thread in Site Stuff a while back explaining where.

CappnHaddock You are of course right. Yet, try to air let and you would most likely get screamed down. Of course though, it is apparently totally acceptable to publicly diminish a woman's right to talk about their experience of sexual assault.

I have cancelled notifications of PMs but don't know how to do the @ bit. Have emailed MNHQ. thanks Assassinated .

mustbemad17

I remember saying that Harry Enfield sketch too. I thought it was funny.

I realised he was probably making a point, but I didn't, in any way, comprehend what a whopping point it is.

What's really laughable is that once you fully understand how gender disadvantages women, the fact that there are men saying they are women, but using every male gender stereotype in the book, and a shit tonne of male socialisation, to shut women up about it.