Jacob Rees mogg at the University of the West of England (Title edited by MNHQ)

[Grrrrrsnarl]

Just watched the clip of Jacob rees mogg at Bristol university, when a few momentum activists try to cause havoc and stop him from talking

Whatever anyone thinks of this man, I have to say he was pretty gutsy going up to them, considering they are all hiding behind Balaclavas and scarves and there wasn't any security there.
Most politicians wouldn't have gone near them, let alone try to talk to them

I like him. Yes his views are controversial and I don't agree with some of them, but at least he stands up for what he believes in

Full video
twitter.com/RaheemKassam/status/959529976616947712. ( Sorry only know how to link to a tweet)

Oh, wait, we live in a free country, so bad luck trying to shut us up.

Which is remarkably given that certain elements have been trying to shut up high court judges and "remoaners".

Which is remarkably given that certain elements have been trying to shut up high court judges and "remoaners"

And yet those certain elements haven't succeeded because.....
It's a free and democratic country.

And yet those certain elements haven't succeeded because.....
It's a free and democratic country.

So you see no problem with people being called traitors for having a different opinion or attacks on the rule of law? This is actually an attack on democracy and civilised society. So I think you need to ask yourself what sort of society you want to live in. Its a shame some people don't invest as much time campaigning against those who seek to erode a tolerant and peaceful nation in order to create a divisive and intolerant one as they do worrying about a controversial MP being heckled. Heckling that few people have suggested is acceptable, but I can understand why some others would seek to make political leverage out of it

If you peddle hate and division, dog whistle politics expect a backlash. Inflammatory divide and conquer headlines and soundbites exist for a reason. Its not to encourage healthy debate

So your describing Momentum / John Macdonald's politics there?

^^ This in a nutshell.

Its a shame some people don't invest as much time campaigning against those who seek to erode a tolerant and peaceful nation in order to create a divisive and intolerant one

Yes!

Again, just because it wears a Saville Road suit, or has a nice lawn....

So you see no problem with people being called traitors for having a different opinion or attacks on the rule of law?

You're conflating two separate things.

I see no problem with people being called traitors for having a different opinion.

I do have a problem with attacks on the rule of law.

I actually find it quite easy to differentiate, & do not lump 'I don't like something, so...' all into one mass.

There's some very simplistic & un-nuanced thinking amongst some posters.
The extremists on the right & on the left suffer from this too.

Without the people with savile row suits and nice lawns, what sort of a country would rabble rousers like josh Connor actually run, one wonders. With low tax receipts to pay for all the marvellous infrastructure they want to build etc.

How long before there was yet another shouty smashy all fart and no poo "grass roots" movement? People like that just want to revel in shouting and smashing. They don't want to do anything productive.

a controversial MP being heckled. Heckling that few people have suggested is acceptable, but I can understand why some others would seek to make political leverage out of it

If they heckle?
Fine.

If they protest?
Fine.

Why put on balaclavas though?

And why not actually address specific issues or call JRM out on anything?

He gave them ample opportunity to have their say & be heard but they chose instead to keep shouting single words at him.
Perhaps they'd have got more out of it if they'd not been such twats?

How long before there was yet another shouty smashy all fart and no poo "grass roots" movement? People like that just want to revel in shouting and smashing. They don't want to do anything productive.

I am unsure about this analysis of grass roots movements.

I think many of the good things we have today actually come from regular folk taking a stand. Enlightened paternalism certainly has its place, but many, many things come from ordinary people's efforts.

When the usual suspects scream "traitor" whether on the front page of a newspaper, social media or a radio phone in it is no different from heckling an MP. Screaming traitor also creates division and marginalises society, this is not healthy political discourse. British politics has been toxic since 2016. I'd probably put my energies into tackling those who have the power and create such an environment. Namely certain MP's and the media.

There's some very simplistic & un-nuanced thinking amongst some posters.

and there is alot of cognitive dissonance amongst some posters.

but they chose instead to keep shouting single words at him

I am still examining this particular event, but as to the above,

Perhaps it is true that Mogg is a better debater. He may have a very wide public school vocabulary, and the confidence of wealth and privilege to remain calm. The armour of the well-cut suit and club tie.

But have these shouty people ever cut off a sick person's assistance?

With low tax receipts to pay for all the marvellous infrastructure they want to build etc.

and yet remarkably Rees-Moggs vision for Brexit Britain will likely create a low tax, low wage environment..

*I am unsure about this analysis of grass roots movements.

I think many of the good things we have today actually come from regular folk taking a stand. Enlightened paternalism certainly has its place, but many, many things come from ordinary people's efforts.*

I agree with what Rebecca said - but as with everything it's a vocal, shouty few who dominate (same with the TRAs taking over the trans agenda).

I also agree with what you said about grass roots movements in general though - one of the things I love about our country is that ordinary people can be heard, & make a difference.

He gave them ample opportunity to have their say & be heard but they chose instead to keep shouting single words at him.

Right, so the issue is somebody was shouty. The country is full of shouty people. Another thing we've learned since 2016.

Ghost, if that's really what you've taken as the issue from this thread, I can only assume your balaclava slipped over your eyes whilst you were reading it!

When the usual suspects scream "traitor" whether on the front page of a newspaper, social media or a radio phone in it is no different from heckling an MP.

I agree.

The thing that I object to is the need to hide behind masks like little weasels though (same as hiding behind anonymity on the internet).

This is a free & democratic country - you're allowed to have an opinion & voice it without fear - why try to create a subversive angle by masking up? If you believe in what you're saying, put your face/name to it.
(I am talking about both sides of the extremes btw)

Right, so the issue is somebody was shouty.

No.

No, I'm just tired of faux outrage that portrays a handful of people getting "shouty" as a major problem whilst ignoring those who have the real power and influence and actually peddle the majority of the "shouty" divisive rhetoric.

This is a free & democratic country - you're allowed to have an opinion & voice it without fear

I agree sadly for as long as I can remember MP's have required security and police protection. There will always be a tiny minority wanting to heckle or physically attack politicians.

My point on this thread is that in order to create a tolerant and fair society that respects oppossing views we must first challenge those who seek , for their own ends to sow division and hate. It happens to be people with considerable wealth, power and influence who do this. We have seen the negative impacts of this since the 2016 referendum. It leads to "shouty" hate filled rants in the street and on social media and at the extreme end it leads to violence.

so maybe lets have a revolution and wipe out 100 of years of right wing/upper class bollocks and start again.

User147 - I think there may well be a revolution. When Corbyn becomes Prime Minister and hen finds he can't deliver all the things he promised, then I think there will be widespread insurrection and rioting.
Revolutions don't always work out the way their instigators planned so be careful what you wish for.

User147 - I think there may well be a revolution. When Corbyn becomes Prime Minister and hen finds he can't deliver all the things he promised, then I think there will be widespread insurrection and rioting.

I doubt it. What is far more likely is that when Brexit becomes unworkable there will be no riots just more shouty folk in the press and radio phone ins playing the blame game.

Agree with your last post - I'm actually more frustrated at the protesters because they had an opportunity to question & call out JRM on a one-to-one basis & chose instead to just shout single words at him whilst wearing masks - like him or loathe him, JRM is always willing to stop & engage.

I agree broadly with him on Brexit, but there's a fuckload of issues I disagree with him on & would have relished the opportunity to take them up with him directly.

One of the great things about the way we 'do' democracy is that we have direct access to our politicians- this is put at risk by people like those masked idiots (and obviously Jo Cox's murder is the ultimate example of how the violent extremes are destroying what we are privileged to have).

Ghost

Your idea of 'shouty' is different to everyone else's.

That was your post from 10 mins ago I agree with ghost, not your last one