Page 26 | Jacob Rees mogg at the University of the West of England (Title edited by MNHQ)

Grrrrrsnarl · 2018-02-02T23:18:11+00:00

Just watched the clip of Jacob rees mogg at Bristol university, when a few momentum activists try to cause havoc and stop him from talking Whatever anyone thinks of this man, I have to say he was pretty gutsy going up to them, considering they are all hiding behind Balaclavas and scarves and there wasn't any security there. Most politicians wouldn't have gone near them, let alone try to talk to them I like him. Yes his views are controversial and I don't agree with some of them, but at least he stands up for what he believes in Full video https://twitter.com/RaheemKassam/status/959529976616947712. ( Sorry only know how to link to a tweet)

user1471450935 · 04/02/2018 19:53

Ghost
I may be wrong, but after ISIS/Deash attacks in the UK, aren't most if not all other attacks carried out by Right wingers. Poor Late Jo COx MP, the van attack you rightly mention. Plus the numerous right wing attacks in the USA.
I believe there has been a 30% rise in right wing referrals to the Prevent scheme. The last organisation to be banned for terrorism was a UK right wing group.
Plus the well document attacks on all foreigners since Brexit vote, increasing attacks on Jewish and Muslim women. Usually by right wing types, and its the hard right who are leading Brexit.
I think momentum as a very long way too go before it gets close to the right wingers. ( I sincerely hope it never gets there TOO)
Fake news ELTON comes from everywhere but mainly ring wing bots. I apologised in my first post this afternoon for saying violent protest, due to tidiness, when I meant DIRECT action
I said sorry to Dapplegrey for my rude reply to her, and I am sorry to Piglet if she now isn't on Eu threads, and I should also say I hate the violence to Jews/Muslims/East Europeans just for who they are.
So could you apologise for saying I don't know Yorkshire and it's not for crack sales I want it to follow the SE success, there is enough drugs in Yorkshire already thank you

Julie8008 · 04/02/2018 19:53

The Rees Mogg incident happened on the same day a man (influenced by right wing propaganda) was convicted for driving a van into a mosque

And? So its ok to violently suppress free speech as long as its done on the same day something else bad happens?

Terrorist commits crime, is arrested and convicted. Everyone condemns him
Violent Momentum activists try to suppress free speech and Corbyn refuses to condem them. I think he should apologise for that.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 04/02/2018 19:56

Terrorist commits crime, is arrested and convicted. Everyone condemns him

Condemning is easy. Addressin/tackling the causes and environment in which people like Osborne were able to operate is the difficult part and I don't see much of that tbh.

Justanotherlurker · 04/02/2018 20:00

Of course it is, even moreso. If you think people should be respected when speaking at a university or in the workplace then it should certainly apply to parliament. If MP's can't be bothered to respect the oppostion speakers why would you expect Joe Public?

No it doesn't it has always been a showpiece, Corbyn has been part of the circus for 30 years heckling many Tory government who was in power and opposition. If you want to see proper debate watch parliament tv.

Masked antifa idiots shouting fascist and trying to shut down a debate where JRM was invited (with labour support I hasten to add) is not in anyway comparable to PMQ's

because under a Tory government peddling Brexit neo liberalism and thus ordinary peoples lives will get worse. The great Brexit con job.

Tell me, what is the difference between Tory neoliberalism and neoliberalism in general. You are still ignoring the fact that JC is in fact a eurosceptic, ensured a 3 line whip to vote it through, said many times about leaving the single market and is facing a rebellion from his back bench to uturn on his stance. What would JC offer to a remain voter who apparently is not a neoliberal, which if you understand the term neoliberal is an oxymoron.

Justanotherlurker · 04/02/2018 20:03

believe there has been a 30% rise in right wing referrals to the Prevent scheme. The last organisation to be banned for terrorism was a UK right wing group.

One of the most recent organisation to be proscribed in the US was antifa ....

BrownLiverSpot · 04/02/2018 20:06

I think most of mainstream media is extremely right wing and also extremely influential when it comes to spreading what I would call political propaganda. It's hard to battle against it, but I'm glad that there is a growing grassroots movement to the left. Perhaps change is coming.

Justanotherlurker · 04/02/2018 20:08

Fake news ELTON comes from everywhere but mainly ring wing bots

Do you have any evidence to back this up, or is it (as I suspect) confirmation bias.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 04/02/2018 20:11

Masked antifa idiots shouting fascist and trying to shut down a debate where JRM was invited (with labour support I hasten to add) is not in anyway comparable to PMQ's

If MP's can't be bothered showing respect in the democratic heart of British politics you can't expect others to. I'm not suggesting the Rees-Mogg incident was acceptable either. If people see their elected representatives being shouted down and heckled in parliament people will see democracy as a sham.

Tell me, what is the difference between Tory neoliberalism and neoliberalism in general.

Tory neo-liberalism has done nothing for ordinary people in the UK over the last 30 years. "Other" neo liberalism is irrelevant because the likes of hard Brexit supporting Mogg sure as hell won't do anything for ordinary folk. That is what appears to be on offer at present.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 04/02/2018 20:14

One of the most recent organisation to be proscribed in the US was antifa ....

Under the Trump administration that failed to condemn white supremacists

Justanotherlurker · 04/02/2018 20:14

I think most of mainstream media is extremely right wing and also extremely influential when it comes to spreading what I would call political propaganda.

Honestly, if you think UK media is extremely right wing propaganda it says more about your political compass and also your lack of understanding of the terms "extremely right wing" and "propaganda" tbh

Eltonjohnssyrup · 04/02/2018 20:16

user, I also live in the catchment area of a failing school and agree that schools in Yorkshire are pretty dire. But have you failed to notice that schools are run by local authorities and those failing schools are overwhelmingly run by Labour councils?

GhostofFrankGrimes · 04/02/2018 20:17

Honestly, if you think UK media is extremely right wing propaganda it says more about your political compass and also your lack of understanding of the terms "extremely right wing" and "propaganda" tbh

what would you call it?

Justanotherlurker · 04/02/2018 20:20

Under the Trump administration that failed to condemn white supremacists

He did a corbyn and blamed both sides like in venezuela, but enough of the cheap shots, as you know, it is not Trump who decides who or what is a proscribed organisation, if you are saying they are influenced then it may tie you up in more knots trying to discredit his recent leak on a supposedly biased FBI.

You could try and answer the difference between a tory neoliberal and a non tory liberal and how within that circle voting in a eurosceptic JC would help with your remain stance...

GhostofFrankGrimes · 04/02/2018 20:25

You could try and answer the difference between a tory neoliberal and a non tory liberal and how within that circle voting in a eurosceptic JC would help with your remain stance...

JC is not in power but I would expect if he were there would be enough sway within the Labour party to water down or fudge Brexit. The same fudge we saw with May when phase 1 of the talks finished. It is under people like Rees Mogg that we would likely get the most disasterous of Brexits. Neo liberalism must be dismantled slowly.

Eltonjohnssyrup · 04/02/2018 20:26

I hate the way you all attacked make and all defended a man I like dislike...

Now this sort of sums up a big problem with the left wing and the sort of people who turned up at the JRM talk.

You don't like JRM, so you think it's fine for people to criticise and attack him. Yet you're getting upset that people questioned make.

You base your opinion on who should be questioned or criticised on who you like and dislike. Those who agree with you and you therefore like should apparently be immune and criticism of them makes you cross and you defend them. Yet apparently other people defending somebody else, who you disagrees with you and you dislike, from criticism also makes you cross. Even though they're only doing the same thing you are doing.

Which basically brings us to the very essence of this thread. The left wing only want left wing voices to be heard and they don't want them to be open to criticism either. And they're prepared to use violence and intimidation to do that.

Everybody of every political stripe should be extremely worried about that. Every time a society has gone down the slippery slope to extremism and totalitarianism, it has started like this.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 04/02/2018 20:34

Which basically brings us to the very essence of this thread. The left wing only want left wing voices to be heard and they don't want them to be open to criticism either. And they're prepared to use violence and intimidation to do that.

This is bollocks though isn't it? An MP was heckled. And who is "the left?". Could your logic be applied to "the right" and Thomas Mair?

Justanotherlurker · 04/02/2018 20:34

JC is not in power but I would expect if he were there would be enough sway within the Labour party to water down or fudge Brexit. The same fudge we saw with May when phase 1 of the talks finished. It is under people like Rees Mogg that we would likely get the most disasterous of Brexits. Neo liberalism must be dismantled slowly.

So vague wooly expectations, politics is just a team sport to you, got it.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 04/02/2018 20:34

Extreme right/extreme left - fascists & anti-democrats both.

Any person who feels it pertinent to don a balaclava before being an aggressive shouty-twat & attempting to shut down free speech is abhorrent & deserves condemnation.

ConferencePear · 04/02/2018 20:35

I disagree fundamentally with Rees-Mogg's opinions, but he had been invited to the university to give a speech. The aim of the demonstrators was to stop him being heard. I believe in free speech although Rees-Mogg's opinions are odious to me they are not hate speech so he does have the right to express them.

Julie8008 · 04/02/2018 20:39

Condemning is easy.
And yet Corbyn has found it so hard he has been unable to ...

Another Momentum excuse, "its not my fault I tried to punch someone to stop them from exercising free speech because during PMQs they talk loudly and heckle each other". FFS

Justanotherlurker · 04/02/2018 20:41

This is bollocks though isn't it? An MP was heckled. And who is "the left?". Could your logic be applied to "the right" and Thomas Mair?

I am sure you have your own interpretation but understand the general meaning of left and right, so to try and muddy the waters is a little disingenuous

Thomas Mair is regularly painted as right wing, Antifa themselves prescribe themselves as left wing.

The difference is that the "right" can openly condemn the extremes of the right, but the "left" condemn with caveats.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 04/02/2018 20:48

So vague wooly expectations, politics is just a team sport to you, got it.

Well thats Brexit isnt it? Wooly. A thread bashing the left and Corbyn. Team sport indeed.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 04/02/2018 20:53

The difference is that the "right" can openly condemn the extremes of the right, but the "left" condemn with caveats.

As I have already said condemning is easy. Stopping poisonous views and division takes courage. I haven't seen much evidence of that. Did the right condemn the Daily Mail headlines or the breaking point poster?

Can I also point out that Darren Osbourne also targeted Corbyn. And it wasn't to heckle him.

BrownLiverSpot · 04/02/2018 20:53

I don't understand why some people here seem so disgusted about politics taking a step to the left, many are calling for centrist or moderate policies but that would require movement to the left as well.

Eltonjohnssyrup · 04/02/2018 20:55

This is bollocks though isn't it? An MP was heckled. And who is "the left?". Could your logic be applied to "the right" and Thomas Mair?

He wasn't 'heckled' though was he? Heckling is fine and to be expected. Instead he was targeted by a group of protestors whose aim was to shut down the talk (at least one of whom at least was prepared to use violence to do so). There is a huge difference between heckling and attempting to shut down. And it goes beyond that to the general atmosphere created within universities. Many have no platforming policies. And even when some like UWE are prepared to invite people like Rees-Mogg, there is going to be fear about doing so because of the repercussions. Also barriers to doing so because security concerns are going to mean there will be prohibitive expense involved in inviting anybody whose views don't fall within the extremely narrow remit tolerated by activists of this type.

Thomas Mair is regularly described as right wing. He is also a convicted murderer. I don't approve of stabbing left wing politicians to death either, so I'm not really sure what your point is. He was also an isolated case. I suspect that you're flailing around trying to find some sort of right wing equivalent and failing because we don't have a regular and pervasive culture of right wing mobs threatening and trying to shut down left wing political discussion.