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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to ask why you for Brexit?

604 replies

BillySmut56 · 30/01/2018 12:01

I'm politically neautral on Brexit, it's a complicated issue, but I'm interested in the consequences that are coming out now. If you voted for Brexit, what were your reasons?

OP posts:
frumpety · 01/02/2018 19:54

And Elton if you think less than 4% is a big number then you are going to blown away by 65.64 million which was the population of the UK in 2016 Smile

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 01/02/2018 19:57

implying that women can't engage with politics without treating it like a 'relationship'

Except nobody said that.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 01/02/2018 19:59

The tactics you used "oh look at those political women getting all worked up"

Except nobody did that.

That is/was your inference.

Justanotherlurker · 01/02/2018 20:02

I think you are going to have to acknowledge that the NHS situation didn't just magically happen. It happened for a reason.

I think you are being willfully obtuse and ignoring the link that the NHS was also in crisis during Labour years and the onset of privatisation was started then, also still ignoring the fact that throwing money at the NHS for feel good policies via PFI mean that a few years down the line it starts to bite.

But, yeah, I was correct that you are treating it as a right/left wing issue.

frumpety · 01/02/2018 20:05

Ghost every time you post a link to the Guardian , a Brexit unicorn dies ! Seriously though , some people believe that everything those at the Guardian writes is subversive and against everything ' the people of UK ' stand for Smile

frumpety · 01/02/2018 20:07

Do you work in the NHS Lurker or you Ghost ? Just curious , by the way as someone who does .

GhostofFrankGrimes · 01/02/2018 20:14

I think you are being willfully obtuse and ignoring the link that the NHS was also in crisis during Labour years and the onset of privatisation was started then, also still ignoring the fact that throwing money at the NHS for feel good policies via PFI mean that a few years down the line it starts to bite.

No, I said austerity was damaging the NHS, which I think most people can agree on. At no point did I suggest issues with the NHS began in 2010. At no point did I suggest that throwing money at the NHS would fix it. If privitisation is bad for the NHS then the government can put a stop to it.

But, yeah, I was correct that you are treating it as a right/left wing issue.

Just because you keep repeating this won't make it true, in the same way that repeating debunked claims about the EU won't make that true either.

Justanotherlurker · 01/02/2018 20:15

Do you work in the NHS Lurker or you Ghost ? Just curious , by the way as someone who does .

My brother is a doctor and has been through the last labour gov and still enduring the current shit show.

I am a senior programmer, but did unfortunately cut code in the dismal IT system that labour tried to introduce, sorry about that BTW.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 01/02/2018 20:16

Frumpety,

The Daily Mail carried that NHS story too. I was tempted to post the link instead but couldn't bring myself to click on the article.

I don't work for the NHS.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 01/02/2018 20:18

But, yeah, I was correct that you are treating it as a right/left wing issue.

This is part of the simplistic narrative of a vocal minority.

Everything is neatly divided so that they can create neat boxes & divides - pigeon hole 'others' so they can clearly signal their 'goodness' & feel righteous.

Remain/Brexit:
Good/bad, right/wrong, left/right, not racist/racist, educated/'uneducated', politically aware/not politically aware, worthy/not worthy, clever/stupid etc etc.

There's a shocking lack of nuance, true critical thinking & awareness.

frumpety · 01/02/2018 20:22

You are wholeheartedly forgiven Lurker , but as a bit of a luddite I get my own back by repeatedly forgetting important passwords . I did send IT helpdesk jaffacakes , when I realised we were on first name terms and am currently awaiting a summons from the memory clinic Grin

Personally , as someone who has worked through all variations of left/right/coalition , the thing that I believe would massively help the NHS is for it to be removed from the political spectrum ( I am sure those in Education feel the same way ) .

Justanotherlurker · 01/02/2018 20:22

No, I said austerity was damaging the NHS, which I think most people can agree on. At no point did I suggest issues with the NHS began in 2010. At no point did I suggest that throwing money at the NHS would fix it. If privitisation is bad for the NHS then the government can put a stop to it.

So to go back then, even including inflation the NHS has had increased funding year on year.

So what is the solution, because I think you are suggesting a situation that was advertised on a side of a bus....

frumpety · 01/02/2018 20:26

Ah Ghost , dry heaving is a tricky symptom to alleviate , stick to The Guardian for now , while I check the BNF Grin

GhostofFrankGrimes · 01/02/2018 20:28

Everything is neatly divided so that they can create neat boxes & divides - pigeon hole 'others' so they can clearly signal their 'goodness' & feel righteous.

The Brexit supporting press are the masters of this. Portray leavers as patriotic and loyal. Depict remainers as traitors, remoaners. Pigeon hole minority groups whether Muslims or foreigners.

There's a shocking lack of nuance, true critical thinking & awareness.

Oh the irony.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 01/02/2018 20:34

So what is the solution, because I think you are suggesting a situation that was advertised on a side of a bus....

Nope. Don't axe bursaries. EU/Overseas health professionals are needed so recruit them and in the long term try to get more UK nationals into health profession. Stop closing A&E and walk in centres. Stop privatisation. You fund the NHS by investing in it, not cutting it and continuing to throw money down a black hole.

Justanotherlurker · 01/02/2018 20:36

The Brexit supporting press are the masters of this. Portray leavers as patriotic and loyal. Depict remainers as traitors, remoaners. Pigeon hole minority groups whether Muslims or foreigners.

And funnily enough, the left leaning press suddenly said that big banks and multinational tax avoiding corporations should be listened to...

BrownLiverSpot · 01/02/2018 20:38

Left leaning press is just guardian, isn't it? Don't think there are others. Independent maybe?

cricketballs3 · 01/02/2018 20:41

A lot of what I have read/listened to.watched regarding Brexit both before and after the referendum is in my opinion a load of bollocks!

The main issue is with those that predict doom and gloom on Brexit is that it is all conjunjuncture as no one knows what will actually happen as no country has left before so how can you fully predict what will happen?

Yes, the exchange rate has plummeted but a lot of experts have commented that that we were riding higher than we should have been and therefore the drop just brought us back in line in what we should have been at

Yes - a lot of the votes to leave might be due to immigration, but think about the reasons why this was so important to so many - it is not in my view purely racist but due to actual impact of free movement in some areas that the remainers have no experience of

Yes - a lot may have fell victim to the advertising, especially with the HS bus slogan but again, ask yourself why this was a factor; the general population saw that the UK were giving £millions to the EU, what benefits were majority of the population seeing?

Yes - there are a lot of people now crying at the thought that their DC can not freely work in another country; they can get a visa so what is the issue?

Yes - there are a lot of regulations/laws that are EU driven that improve conditions/way of life/environment - but who is to say that this wouldn't have happened if the EU didn't exist?

Why do remainers think that once we leave the EU that as a country we will suddenly give up these conditions.way of life/environmental/regulations?

The Remainers need to look far more deeply at the reasons why so many voted to leave rather than thinking they know best, that those who voted to leave are racist and stupid - look at the reasons beyond the headlines that they 'fell for the bus' and are 'racists' at why so many voted to leave

GhostofFrankGrimes · 01/02/2018 20:42

And funnily enough, the left leaning press suddenly said that big banks and multinational tax avoiding corporations should be listened to...

Re Banks: Absolutely, because they don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bathwater, which is what Brexit is. Banks need reform not paralysis and the loss of million in tax receipts.

Tax avoiding corporations - not so much. I'd look at the EU tax regulations coming into affect in 2020 and ask why some Brexiteers want UK out ASAP.

BrownLiverSpot · 01/02/2018 20:43

Looking at this thread and countless others, we all seem to agree that UK is doing crap at the moment. What we disagree on are the causes but mainly the solutions to the countless issues.

Justanotherlurker · 01/02/2018 20:47

Left leaning press is just guardian, isn't it? Don't think there are others. Independent maybe?

Subjective on the right wing media to be honest, Independant has gone full on click bait left, mirror, then you have the online media which is consumed more by the younger generation who mainly voted remain. Huffpo/canary/many blogs.

FT/economist has always been capitalist/pro business yet was suddenly a fountain of knowledge for the left leaning.

Peregrina · 01/02/2018 20:48

About a year ago I took to asking those Leavers who decry the EU as unelected bureaucrats forcing laws upon us, if they took the opportunity to vote in the European elections. I got No answers saying 'yes, always, or even 'I have done sometimes'. I got one saying that by not voting they were making a point that they didn't agree. I cannot say that I was persuaded that they were making a statement - a spoilt ballot would have done that; it could equally well have been inferred that they weren't bothered. I have taken the 'unelected' statements with a pince of salt since then.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 01/02/2018 20:50

Why do remainers think that once we leave the EU that as a country we will suddenly give up these conditions.way of life/environmental/regulations?

Because when you look at the type of people bank rolling the leave campaigns it doesn't look very good does it?

Oh and check out Britannia Unchained as this article alludes to;

British workers 'among worst idlers', suggest Tory MPs

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19300051

and

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-safety-standards-workers-rights-jacob-rees-mogg-a7459336.html

The Remainers need to look far more deeply at the reasons why so many voted to leave rather than thinking they know best, that those who voted to leave are racist and stupid - look at the reasons beyond the headlines that they 'fell for the bus' and are 'racists' at why so many voted to leave

Remainers have covered this many times and pointed out that most issuing affecting the UK are home grown and not the fault of the EU.

Justanotherlurker · 01/02/2018 20:56

Re Banks: Absolutely, because they don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bathwater, which is what Brexit is. Banks need reform not paralysis and the loss of million in tax receipts.

But when the banks use the same rhetoric during the last GE about Corbyn it was apparently scaremongering...

AgnesSkinner · 01/02/2018 20:57

no country has left before

You’ve forgotten about Greenland.

60,000 people, one industry, and it still took more than 2 years to sort out.