AIBU to ask why you for Brexit?

[BillySmut56]

I'm politically neautral on Brexit, it's a complicated issue, but I'm interested in the consequences that are coming out now. If you voted for Brexit, what were your reasons?

You should have read what was said when we told people they had classic stages of a relationship break syndrome..

They went nuts.

When we say many Brexiters don't understand issues we get shouted down and called names......

Its a defence mechanism, nobody likes it when their arguments unravel in the face of evidence.

No one can fix it, as it's so expensive, but it's still one heck of a lot better than a lot of other countries.

£350 mil a week was gonna fix it wasn't it? Aside from that of course it can be fixed, it is currently being purposely broken by a government that wants it privatised.

No @mummmy2017 , no one went nuts. It was pointed out to you that using language like 'hysterical' or implying that women can't engage with politics without treating it like a 'relationship' is offensive.

The tactics you used "oh look at those political women getting all worked up" is exactly the same tactic used by misogynists throughout history to keep women quiet.

No one went nuts - we used historical knowledge and an understanding of language to ask you to stop being offensive and to stick to the point.

The tactics you used "oh look at those political women getting all worked up"

That’s interesting, because I’ve always thought most of the mumsnet remainers are men, they certainly come across as male.

Since we have not actually left, or go the money YET, how can you claim this exercise as failed, before it has even happened.

Having must gone through the worse weekend ever, nothing that happens from Brexit will ever be as bad as you think, and the fact suddenly the EU is admitting they may have to give way on things, gives me Hope for what the UK will become when we leave.

Since we have not actually left, or go the money YET, how can you claim this exercise as failed, before it has even happened.

because virtually every report carried out on Brexit including the governments own makes for dire reading. Because the £ tanked after the referendum. Because UK's growth is poor in comparison to the EU as is GDP against the G7.

£350 mil a week was gonna fix it wasn't it? Aside from that of course it can be fixed, it is currently being purposely broken by a government that wants it privatised.

No it isn't, your showing your party elligence and still trying to paint it a right/left issue (good luck with JC in charge BTW)

The NHS is in need of some cross party action, throwing money at it isn't a solution as it is never enough, which was what the link was highlighting

Dear, got to feel sorry for those misguided desperate people, whipped into nationalistic frenzy, mostly by the despicable hate-dealing British press... :(

No it isn't, your showing your party elligence and still trying to paint it a right/left issue (good luck with JC in charge BTW)

I'm not painting it as a left/right issue merely pointing out that nearly a decade of austerity isn't going to do much positively for health and social care.

The NHS is in need of some cross party action, throwing money at it isn't a solution as it is never enough, which was what the link was highlighting

Yes that it is commendable but a 96% drop in nursing applications from EU citizens and a 23% drop in British students taking up the profession (blamed on cut to bursaries) isn't going to help when their are already staff shortages.

Justanotherlurker we are expected to provide figures to justify everything, even though the government haven't provided them.

We have to provide more than a desire to leave as a reason to go, as it's wrong that we had a vote and exercised the right to use it.

We are expected to find some magical solution that has not been ever found before to cure the NHS's may woes.

And above all we are not allowed to accept what is a result of how we voted as we must admit we are wrong and the magic 2nd Referendum is the bright hope of the future,,, you know the one May and Corbyn say they don't want.

Julie

the referendum was won by leave on the slimmest of margins
How can anyone claim the EU is a democracy and then claim a UK vote should be trivialised/ignored because the majority was only 1.5 million votes.

I did not say at any point that the vote should be ignored or trivialised did I , what I did was simply state a fact , an undisputable fact . I was simply making the case that you cannot use the term UK people or the people of the UK , when it simply isn't true . You can say people who voted leave , that would be factually correct .

Justanotherlurker we are expected to provide figures to justify everything, even though the government haven't provided them.

The government created an exiting EU dept. The dept wrote a report. It pointed out the negatives of Brexit. The government didn't like what it saw so dismissed its own report. Worrying? Take back control? This is it.

We have to provide more than a desire to leave as a reason to go, as it's wrong that we had a vote and exercised the right to use it.

Nope nobody suggested that.

We are expected to find some magical solution that has not been ever found before to cure the NHS's may woes.

Yes but the big red bus was going to be the magic bullet. It was of the standout taglines of the leave campaign.

I'm not painting it as a left/right issue merely pointing out that nearly a decade of austerity isn't going to do much positively for health and social care.

But you are, because the funding excluding inflation has been increasing year on year, there are problems in the NHS and the answer is not to just keep throwing money at it.

The problem is that labour buried it by ramping up the PFI and flooding middle managers whilst starting the closure of smaller hospitals, people are so partisan now that the Cons are back in power so that we are apparently turning it into a US style system.

It is used as a political football, and that is what will kill it in the long term

Julie

does the lack of clarity regarding our (the UK's) position not worry you
That's a remainers narrative, I dont see any need for a public position to be declared before you have negotiated what the future relationship will be, just seems counterproductive to do so.

Your reply is also seemingly a leavers narrative , the problem with the lack of transparency from our own government is the EU are very much in favour of it , they probably have experts and power points and books and people actually employed to be transparent , so pretending that the negotiations are going to be all cloak and dagger is hilarious .

the referendum was won by leave on the slimmest of margins

It wasn't. It was won by 3.78%. And because it was the biggest democratic vote ever that equals over 1.269 million more votes.

The government created an exiting EU dept. The dept wrote a report. It pointed out the negatives of Brexit. The government didn't like what it saw so dismissed its own report. Worrying? Take back control? This is it.

Pity if it so compelling David Cameron didn't manage to get access to it pre referendum..

So your now OK I left because I wanted too...

So it's OK to wait till we leave and get the cash to help the NHS.

But you are, because the funding excluding inflation has been increasing year on year, there are problems in the NHS and the answer is not to just keep throwing money at it.

I never suggested money would solve it. Austerity certainly won't nor will Brexit. The NHS will always be a political football because certain factions want it privatised.

It was used as a political football by the leave campaign. Support for the NHS has always been strong with the general public and the leave campaign tapped into that with the £350 million tagline. Once the referendum was over leavers basically backed down from the claim. It was a nasty, cynical piece of propaganda that sucked millions of people in.

If the NHS shouldn't be used as a political football ask every politican and leave donor who ever sat on the infamous red bus to stop using it as such.

Pity if it so compelling David Cameron didn't manage to get access to it pre referendum..

It was written then, which was just the start of the fuck up when options weren't weighed up prior to calling a referendum.

So it's OK to wait till we leave and get the cash to help the NHS.

But your leave pal on this thread doesn't think more money will help the NHS. Of course alot of people suspected leave voters wanted different things from Brexit and this proves it. Leavers will end up very disappointed.

Julie

How would you feel if we don't leave the EU ? how will it effect your day to day living if we remain ? Before the referendum I wouldn't have cared either way. Now if we dont leave the EU I will feel UK democracy has been subverted/betrayed, it will change how I vote, I will probably start campaigning to escape the EU immediately (which I have never done before). It will probably make me open to doing things I would never have considered before, if democracy is dead what do we have left?

So before June 2016 , the EU didn't effect your day to day life , you, by your own admission didn't care either way . Now you are suggesting , I am not even sure what you are suggesting , but to be honest it sounds slightly scary .

So another mess up by David Cameron. for not using these fact..

How can we know how the money will be used till we get it back, and they do the first Budget after we finally leave,

The NHS will always be a political football because certain factions want it privatised.

I think you need to re-read that if you do not think you are treating this as Right/left issue.

Most of Europe's health care are part privatised, as a side note, the EU recently forced more privatisation on greece

Elton I said slimmest of margins , so less than 4% , you may think less than 4% is a huge victory and indeed 1.269 million is lots of people , but then so is 16,141,241

if democracy is dead

Hyperbolic nonsense. Ref 2 is entirely constitutional. Vernon Bogdanor agrees with me on that

Mummy,

There isn't going to be any money, this country is going to be poorer as it is leaving the biggest trade block in the world with vague notions of selling Jam and tea to the rest of the world.

I think you need to re-read that if you do not think you are treating this as Right/left issue.

I think you are going to have to acknowledge that the NHS situation didn't just magically happen. It happened for a reason.

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/06/nhs-faces-humanitarian-crisis-rising-demand-british-red-cross