AIBU to ask why you for Brexit?

[BillySmut56]

I'm politically neautral on Brexit, it's a complicated issue, but I'm interested in the consequences that are coming out now. If you voted for Brexit, what were your reasons?

If you think of the UK and the current government as a person who has decided to move house , now normally when you make this decision you do things , such as deciding where you are going to live next , you starting organising moving by packing boxes , you work out how and when you are going to do it , get a van organised , make sure you are not working on the day you plan to move , get the legal stuff sorted , just the general moving house stuff .

The UK and its current government are at the 'right we are going to move house ' stage , they haven't moved forward at all from this stage , they keep saying they are definitely going to move house , they just have no idea of when and where to or how they are going to do it . Problem is they have already given notice on their lease and the days and weeks are flying by .

So when moving day arrives , they are going to have a massive crisis , because nothing is packed , it wont all fit in the Morris minor and they forgot to find somewhere else to live. They have also just noticed that the rent on the house they are leaving is much cheaper and better value for money than any other suitable property in their area, so now they are going to end up worse off .

Or they think 'hang on this moving malarkey is going to be awfully expensive and other than the dodgy flush on the loo , which could be easily sorted , we are far better off staying put for now '

I think the second scenario is becoming more and more likely as the days and weeks fly by .

I voted to remain, as there was no plan whatsoever to leave in a proper fashion. I don't even think they thought they would win.
I'm not a fan of the EU. Somethings are good about it, no doubt. But I certainly don't hold it up as a beacon of wonder, to be endlessly admired.
Its not just about immigration. White working class and ethnic people do have higher amounts of immigration in their areas though.
It's about a class of people who no one cares about. It's about them being forced out of areas because of immigration and gentrification. It's about white working class having no opportunity, particularly boys. It's about the class system, being very much in force still. It's about parties like Labour turning into a shower of shite, no longer representing them. People's votes don't really count in an election in many ways. But this vote did count.
Why shouldn't they be angry, this country has never given a shit about poor white people. I grew up as one.
Look at the guardian newspaper. All brexit voters were thick stupid idiots. Not people who were bloody angry. The stupid ones are the middle class liberals who never saw this coming.
I absolutely understand why they voted for brexit. If you honestly don't know, then you must be out of touch.

Most of the people I know who voted to leave, over half were immigrants.

I have issues with the EU. I have even more issues with the abandonment of the white working class. I understand the need to protest. I want protest. I am an active trade unionist who supports protests.

But, but, but this was spectacularly the wrong way to protest. This will harm the people we need to protect and support.

Democracy is about majority rule. So if your constituency vote labour but more vote Tory, you get a Tory government
Which would be fine if the EU was one country but its not. So in reality you have foreign countries dictating the law in the UK, which UK citizens cannot change, this is not democracy in the UK.
Just to contrast my MP has a constituency of approx 60,000 people. But my MEP has a constituency of just under a million people.

I voted remain for the same reason , no plan or even a list to speak of ! Still no plan other than a risible and almost certainly unattainable ' Bespoke deal ' It would be shocking, if this hadn't been mentioned at least a hundred billion squillion times before the referendum .

Julie,

I don't recall the British electorate getting a say in Henry VIII powers. Certainly wasn't mentioned during the referendum.

Look at the guardian newspaper. All brexit voters were thick stupid idiots.

Can you provide some links to these articles please?

I voted out because I believe the EU is failing and will drag Britain down with it. I believe that Britain has huge potential outside the EU. I believe that Britain can be great as an independent country able and willing to work equally with countries all over the world a gateway to Europe, to America, to Asia or to Africa. We have a unique multiculturalism which can be a huge advantage as long as it isn’t abused,

But I certainly don't hold it up as a beacon of wonder, to be endlessly admired

I dont think ive ever heard anyone say this

@Julie8008

Nobody 'dictates' anything. In a democratic system the side with the most votes wins. That is not dictatorship.

What you are saying is you want no outside power to have any influence on the UK. I think this is unrealistic in the modern world. This is an argument about working with and cooperating with other countries not an issue of democracy.

You don't think we should not work in the EU with other countries, fine, but this does not mean the EU is undemocratic. Th EU is a democracy this means we might not win every vote.

I am sure you are aware you do not just have 1 MEP. Due to the size of the constituencies and the voting system you have between 3 - 10 ( I think) MEPs.

I dont think ive ever heard anyone say this

I do think it has become a bit of a retrospective navel gazing symptom of many hard line remainers in the press.

I have seen it in a lot of right/left leaning media, can't pin it down to specific links however

I have seen it in a lot of right/left leaning media, can't pin it down to specific links however

Convenient

Convenient hmm

No, what is convenient is your confirmation bias that you cannot see.

Let's be realistic, as soon as the referendum was announced the media on both sides went into overdrive, and lets not pretend that you are oblivious to the fact that papers such as the guardian painted leavers as racist. What's the meme, not everyone who voted leave are racists, but all racists voted leave... implying a guilt by association.

I will put money on it right here and now

That no one has said

The eu is a beacon of wonder to be endlessly admired

Betcha

A lot of the UKIP rhetoric was racist though. Dog whistle politics at it's most shabby. The wiff of racism in the air. Specifically the "Breaking Point" campaign. Nothing said overtly a lot suggested implicitly.

Brexit supporters Gove, Johnson could have said we support Brexit for these reasons but abhor these tactics. They didn't, they rode on the coat tails of racism. It leaves a nasty taste.

I'll save my concern for those who spoke out against Brexit on social media and received death threats as a result. I'll save my concern for judges who get called enemies of the people and politicians called traitors for suggesting any negatives to Brexit.

There is a nasty undercurrent in this country thanks to the referendum. History will record this, as it will also record the countless anti foreigner/xenophobic news articles that have poisoned political discourse in this country. Someone writes this shit, someone reads it and someone believes it.

I'm not going to stay silent on any of the above because it makes awkward reading for some.

I won't defend the EU on everything, there is a over fondness for bureaucracy etc, decision making can seem over complex to someone used to the British system. I get that.

But Brexiters must acknowledge they voted alongside and supported the same cause as some people with very racist views. No one can seriously defend the "Enemies of the People" headline. Go on defend it.

I'm not going to stay silent

Understatement of the decade.

The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing

I'm sure we're all glad when people stand up against evil, and racism is evil. Calling those judges "Enemies of the People" is indefensible.

I'm sure we're all glad when people stand up against evil

I'm not sure they'd probably get accused of virtue signalling.

I don't recall the British electorate getting a say in Henry VIII powers
Our elected MPs will allow or not the powers, and if we dont like it we can elect new MPs at the next election to overturn them. We cannot do that with the EU because its undemocratic.

Nobody 'dictates' anything. In a democratic system the side with the most votes wins. That is not dictatorship
Oh please, you really believe as long as a situation is engineered to ensure a majority of votes then its democracy. That's very naive in a world with Russia, China, Zimbabwe, Trump, and a lot of the world. More votes does not automatically equally democracy, how naive.

Now you might have a 'small' point if people had actually agreed to this EU system but I am not sure anyone in the UK ever actually agreed to the the current EU system and if we didn't agree to it and have no power to change it then its ridiculous to call it democratic.

I like ghosts posts

Apropos nothing

I like saying apropos as well

Calling those judges "Enemies of the People" is indefensible

Yep

@Julie8008

Yep that's me ridiculous! It's almost as if I have no fucking clue what I'm talking about.

More votes does not equal democracy as the UK fptp system clearly demonstrates. The system we use to elect MEPs is significantly more democratic by your measure. This makes the EU more democratic than the UK - go and read up on electoral systems.

To imply that Russia is a democracy is silly, I'm glad I didn't do it.