AIBU to ask why you for Brexit?

[BillySmut56]

I'm politically neautral on Brexit, it's a complicated issue, but I'm interested in the consequences that are coming out now. If you voted for Brexit, what were your reasons?

@Julie8008
body forcing those laws upon us

The laws were not forced upon us. Our elected representatives voted for them. That is democracy.

UK citizens "have a say" on a law through their elected representatives: MPs, MEPs or via their elected governments in the Council of Ministers. That is democracy.

Your reference to trials further emphasises your lack of understanding. Trials are not democratic. Judges are not elected in the UK and the separation of powers means elected representatives should not be involved in the legal system. Serving Judges can not become MPs.

Please stop.

Through NATO we have binding military commitments. Very limited democracy in NATO compared to the EU. Only via our elected representatives. Unlike the EU where we can directly elect MEPs.

Who is making the decisions in NATO? Which Supreme Commanders in its history have been any nationality other than American?

Why are people happy to have a multinational American dominated organisation but not a European one, which would defend countries which are our neighbours? I am blessed if I can think of any time the Afghans have threatened Britain.

I voted LEAVE for many reasons. ONE of those reasons was because of people like GhostofFrankGrimes.

And reading his/her posts has reinforced that I did absolutely the right thing.

What's WRONG with @GhostofFrankGrimes?

What's WRONG with @GhostofFrankGrimes? It's the incessant I-know-better-than-you. And this from me, a hard-core remainer/bring on a second ref/live in the EU and want to keep all my rights.

I see. Still doesn't sound remotely like a reason enough to commit the country into fairly deep economic hardship.

It seems strange to pick on one poster and use that poster to justify a voting decision. The one poster you choose @GhostofFrankGrimes has actually made some reasonable posts. While looking at this pp you are happy to ignore the absolute stupidity of other posters arguing black is white!

An "I know better" tone will change how you vote but other posters factual inaccuracies and total misunderstanding of democracy is fine?

Really?

Is this the part where remainers are accused of being patronising?

The barracking echo chamber has manifested itself in yet another thread.

Joy.

If polemic articles are not to be read at all, what will the momentum/left wing nutters read? And it is exactly this sort of patronising tone taken by the EU and its rabid supporters that puts people off and makes them take notice of the fact that they are actually Twats!

The EU is crooked, corrupt and they have been extremely condescending towards the UK. They need our money but have zero interest in our country's progress or development. Have you seen the way they treat our PM's? Have you seen the way they worship Merkel and Germany? How is it not a throwback to the Europe of the 40s? And if people on here are still worshiping at the altar of the EU, more fool you. I am glad most people voted to leave the godforsaken unit.

What a fine example of a kind and reasonable voice of Brexit.

Moussemoose Perhaps as you are so sure the EU is democratic you can explain this.

If the UK parliament elects a government that wants to end the CAP. Then 100% of UK voters elect 100% of UK MEPs into a party to end the CAP (or any other issue). Yet those MEPs go to Brussels to bring an end to the CAP and the EU says NO. Your response is tough that is democracy for you?

IMO that is not democracy for myself or the UK voters, and your arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Like many I don’t like to condemn leavers as being stupid gullible racists who believe whatever anti eu rubbish they read in the tabloids. The problem is, I’ve yet to meet one who isn’t.

Again and again on this thread and others it’s clear that the brexiteers just have no idea what they’re talking about. “The eu will collapse and I don’t want to be in it when it does”. Where does that crap come from? Why is that somehow a reason to leave the richest trading block in the world? Even if that nonsense was true, how could being in a trading block when it “collapsed” be worse than just leaving it when it is thriving.

The stuff about the army and laws is woefully ignorant too. It’s obvious many people in the uk have no idea about their own legal system never mind how the eu impacts on it.

It would be fine if it just affected the, but it doesn’t. The problem is these morons will make us all poorer.

What a fine example of a kind and reasonable voice of Brexit.

The only people I've seen at pains to point out how kind, reasonable & caring they are, are the desperately virtue signalling anti-Brexiters (and of course, the hypocrite Corbyn).

Julie. Democracy is about majority rule. So if your constituency vote labour but more vote Tory, you get a Tory government. That’s how democracy works. It’s not some sort of system that allows you personally to have your preference.

@Julie8008

You are confusing getting your own way with democracy. In a democracy you don't always get your own way, that is kind of the point. Always getting your own way is a key indicator of a dictatorship. Your opinion on what is democracy is irrelevant, it is either arguably democratic or it isn't.

The EU is a democracy. You don't like it, fine. You don't like having to abide by democratic decisions, fine. You want the UK to have the final say, fine. But the EU is democratic.

Compromise and negotiation are usually considered to be good things.

@bluebells1 by all means read polemic, enjoy it, argue with it, but don't present it as fact when it isn't. You reference the 1940s, which end of the decade? The beginning was very different to the end.

Like many I don’t like to condemn leavers as being stupid gullible racists who believe whatever anti eu rubbish they read in the tabloids. The problem is, I’ve yet to meet one who isn’t.

🙄

Like a scratched record.

I used to post, many moons ago, on the vaccination threads (looong before Brexit that was where all the nasty to-ing and fro-ing went on). I realised at a certain point that I was becoming more extreme in my position as I defended what I thought was just logic and correct reasoning at the same time as radicalising the posters I pitted myself against. What was the point? They were never going to come close to my position no matter how clever, how well thought through my arguments, how sarcastic or funny I was as I ripped them. I now look back and think what a complete waste of time. Much is similar in these debates.

Ask yourself: what do you hope to achieve or gain from having the argument, and will engaging in a typing crusade achieve that?

@FaithHopeCharityDesperation you explain where you stand on "kind and reasonable" where do you stand on factual inaccuracy?

Like many I don’t like to condemn leavers as being stupid gullible racists who believe whatever anti eu rubbish they read in the tabloids. The problem is, I’ve yet to meet one who isn’t.

Pretend to be open minded, and then make a sweeping generalised meme.

I am brown and a remainer, I have met many many left leaning labour voters in high tech jobs who voted leave, not one of them was racist , I suggest you widen your group of friends or not go in with any preconceived ideas.

And a small tip, wanting a controlled immigration (regardless of of all the usual comebacks) is not inherently racist, there are many stories in the mainstream press of recent and long term immigrants voting leave.

No need to ask this question anymore, I found the definitive answer from another thread. People voted for brexit because: corbyn. Not sure how it must have worked but apparently it did.

It isn't going to happen , but whilst it isn't happening I think the remain side benefits from better jokes

People voted for brexit because: corbyn. Not sure how it must have worked but apparently it did.

How?

To be honest, a lot of the leaver rhetoric I saw running up to the vote was to vote leave because they treated it as a partisan issue and to stick one to the tories.

Maybe it's confirmation bias though.

I voted LEAVE for many reasons. ONE of those reasons was because of people like GhostofFrankGrimes.

And reading his/her posts has reinforced that I did absolutely the right thing.

I'm flattered by the attention. I'd like to defend myself however by stating that I have never insulted anyone on Brexit threads. I have however been insulted myself and not risen to it. Brexit is a political issue and as such people will have differing opinions that they feel strongly about. I'm not going to apologise for defending my position - in most cases providing evidence to back up my position.

Three things I have done is;

1. Called out posters who perpetuate leave campaign claims that have been debunked countless times - money for the NHS, Turkey joining, EU army, reclaim sovereignty etc.

1. Challenged posters whose only contribution is to essentially cut and paste tabloid headlines "united states of europe", "unelected bureaucrats" etc.

1. Pointed out that many of the concerns Brexiters mention are legitimate but the fault of UK government not the EU - housing, NHS etc.

The fact that I referred to demographics of those that voted leave seems to have a hit a nerve. Nothing I can do about that. It is what is.
I haven't called anyone stupid. What I will say however is that if you continue to perpetuate oft debunked claims after been presented with evidence people will question your motives/ability to think critically.

If you voted leave because of people like me then it is no different to voting leave to give Cameron/Osborne a bloody nose. Short sighted. And shooting oneself in the foot.