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Original poster

Why do people think the government is some form of parent?

251 replies

soddingsoda · 29/01/2018 20:38

I've spent a lot of time in the US, i'm British but have a fair amount of family in the US.

While there's obviously huge social issues in the US, and I feel fortunate to be British I'm just not a fan of the British mentality. Someone said something the other day and it hit the nail on the head: If an American employee sees his boss turn up in a Mercedes he'll be envious and it will inspire him. The same situation happens in the UK the employee would be spiteful and call it unfair.

I have a second job working behind a bar once a week. Quite often when punters have had a drink they love to rant about the system. One woman 'debating' with the others then pointed to me. Apparently if there wasn't any foreigners over here I would be able to a council house. She seemed pretty stumped when I told her that it wasn't the governments responsibility to house me, I'm healthy, young, able to work and choose to live at home so I can save for a deposit and go travelling and spent a shit ton on starbucks.

Someone also had a conversation that she's had tooth ache for over a year as she needs a filling. She feels that she shouldn't have to pay for it as she pays taxes. I really wanted to point out that if she wasn't down the pub every week paying £3.50 a pint, she could easily pay for that filling within a month.

It's just really starting to grate on me, we live in such a privileged society where we get a free education, everyone has access to a fairly good health service and we have so many opportunities. I just want to give a good shake to some people and tell them to take responsibilities for their own lives as they're adults and that's what adults are meant to do.

OP posts:
SusanBunch · 30/01/2018 20:40

Someone said something the other day and it hit the nail on the head: If an American employee sees his boss turn up in a Mercedes he'll be envious and it will inspire him. The same situation happens in the UK the employee would be spiteful and call it unfair.

Well, the American employees are deluded. The system does not allow everyone to become rich- it is entirely dependent on the vast majority of people staying poor. You are fine with your rent-free parental home, OP, but how do you expect people who come from nothing and have had to drop out of school to become carers for parents or siblings to 'pull up their socks' and become rich?

treaclesoda · 30/01/2018 20:50

The same situation happens in the UK the employee would be spiteful and call it unfair.

I'm not denying that there are some people who lack a work ethic but I can honestly say that I've never heard someone complain that it's unfair that someone else has a flashier car. I've heard plenty of people with flashy cars assume that everyone else is jealous though.

expatinscotland · 30/01/2018 20:51

'Someone said something the other day and it hit the nail on the head: If an American employee sees his boss turn up in a Mercedes he'll be envious and it will inspire him. The same situation happens in the UK the employee would be spiteful and call it unfair.'

Oh, bullshit. I'm from there, more than a few might be inclined puzzle out ways how to take it off him. Work smarter, not harder.

Battleax · 30/01/2018 20:56

She seemed pretty stumped when I told her that it wasn't the governments responsibility to house me, I'm healthy, young, able to work and choose to live at home so I can save for a deposit and go travelling and spent a shit ton on starbucks.

Grin

It's not Mummy and Daddy's job to house you either sweetheart but you're relying on them instead of being a proper grown up so maybe you should hush up a bit.

If I'd had to survive the last decade on minimum wage... well I was going to say I'd be a wreck but I don't think I WOULD have survived.

I'm in awe of people who do low wage, necessary jobs in this economy. If they need some housing support, I'd think that's just Maths. I can't actually visualise where we'd be without housing benefit and a controlled rental sector.

Kursk · 30/01/2018 21:02

I am finding this thread very interesting, it really does highlight the difference between us and the Brits.

I think another key difference is that people here (USA) are more likely to start there own business. Possibly due to less regulations??

goose1964 · 30/01/2018 21:09

As far as I know it's a lot easier to work your way up in the states. Here if mummy and daddy don't have a pile and pay for you to go to the right school it's an awfully hard journey to get to the top. You could be the most outstanding genius in you tried but if you're up against a numpty whose Daddy was at Eton with the CEO guess which one gets the job.
We as a nation are also a lot less self centred than Americans, you only have to look at the two parties there, they make some of the Tories look like Trotsky

Tessliketrees · 30/01/2018 21:17

I think another key difference is that people here (USA) are more likely to start there own business

I think, if there is a difference, it's that Americans see free market capitalism as inherent where as Brits may still have a residual memory of it being some rules some people made up.

The government enforces a grossly unfair system.

One of the ways they justify that is by accepting some responsibility to be seen to be trying to even things out a bit.

TheBrilliantMistake · 30/01/2018 21:20

The US has 6% self employed, the UK has 8%

TheBrilliantMistake · 30/01/2018 21:22

*correction - UK is 15%

Source: data.oecd.org/emp/self-employment-rate.htm

TheBrilliantMistake · 30/01/2018 21:23

the 8% figure was the percentage of population.

Kursk · 30/01/2018 21:23

The US has 6% self employed, the UK has 8%

So given the population size differences the US has a lot more self employed people

SusanBunch · 30/01/2018 21:24

It's not Mummy and Daddy's job to house you either sweetheart but you're relying on them instead of being a proper grown up so maybe you should hush up a bit.

This. Hahahaha. Why are you any better because you have parents to rely on? You obviously can't stand on your own two feet yourself so why stigmatise those who haven't got a family to bail them out and have to rely on the state instead?

Kursk · 30/01/2018 21:25

Cross post, so without time to do the Math, that probably works out to be a similar number.

SusanBunch · 30/01/2018 21:26

So given the population size differences the US has a lot more self employed people

Errrrr. Are you serious? Yes, but it also has a lot more employed people. Because of like population size difference. Which is why it is necessary to use percentages. Self-employment is more common in the UK than in the US.

TheBrilliantMistake · 30/01/2018 21:30

No, it's almost 3 times the number in the UK than the US (per capita)
You can't go off sheer numbers as the US is huge by comparison, but it's actually one of the worst nations in the world for start-ups!

The impression that the US fosters a huge number of start-ups belies the fact that corporate America actually rules the roost and creates more of the employment.

TheBrilliantMistake · 30/01/2018 21:33

In the UK, our former large industries have died - in the 1980's we had a sea change from manufacturing to services, and we still exhibit the effects of that today. Our manufacturing is recovering now, but in the meantime, that's how we ended up with lots of people running smaller businesses.

leftoutandwondering · 30/01/2018 21:37

Haven't read every post in the thread, but has it been mentioned yet that the US has no statutory paid maternity leave, annual leave or paid holidays? And no social health care of course, nor much of any other social safety net.

The lower classes work to better themselves because they have no other choice, if they didn't work they and their families would soon be homeless or starving. Don't mistake survival instinct for some kind of superior work ethic.

birdseye2010 · 30/01/2018 21:49

Haven't read every post in the thread, but has it been mentioned yet that the US has no statutory paid maternity leave, annual leave or paid holidays? And no social health care of course, nor much of any other social safety net.

it's not nearly that simple. Currently, the minimum wage in many places in the US is much higher than here. While they have no universal healthcare system, emergency care is available in most states. Yes, they have poor paid mat leave, but in fact the UK isn't far behind. the gap in this regard is bigger between the UK and the EU than the US and UK.

And of course, many americans would argue that a lot of the social safety net in the UK doesn't actually help the poor. What it does is inflate an army of well paid government bureaucrats. Housing, for example, I'd imagine is much more affordable in the US than in the UK, despite the extensive housing benefit system.

That said, my old country is incredibly backwards in some regards (I am an american living in the UK). Healthcare is a disaster for one. But there is no doubt that people in the UK tolerate, in my opinion, a lot more government intrusion into personal lives than back home.

Unfinishedkitchen · 30/01/2018 21:52

I should have added that despite our problems in the UK with entitlement and lack of work ethic amongst many, I don’t think the US is a country I would look to emulate.

They have extreme inequality and some living in third world conditions only a couple of miles away from people richer than God who appear to spend much of their time trying to pay even less taxes and manipulate things in their favour (e.g the Koch’s and Mercer’s). Their ‘winners’ and ‘losers’ culture feels almost primitive and very un-Christian despite many claiming to be Christian tbh and their weirdness about race will be studied and analysed by future societies as being quite crazed but like I said there is not a perfect country on the planet.

malificent7 · 30/01/2018 21:54

I see the goverment as a mechanism to keep the most selfish impulses of man in check.
I do think it is the goverment's responsibility to run the country and that includes providing decent jobs and wages.. and venefits if needed.
This goverment has been a massive fail.. and yes i do blame them for a decline in permanent jobs and an increase in short term contracts.

Tbh ...i am less ambitious under a Tory goverment as i think...whats the use? I'll never get a decent paycheque . ( i do work btw)

malificent7 · 30/01/2018 21:55

But although i work i am more despondent about lack of opportunities and contracts...why out more in if wages and contracts are slashed?

malificent7 · 30/01/2018 21:56

Put more in...

malificent7 · 30/01/2018 21:57

Also its a bit depressing to think that we dont need anyone else to succeed...

ReanimatedSGB · 30/01/2018 21:58

Most start ups are started by people who are already relatively comfortable - they have enough of a credit rating to be able to get a loan, or parents who can house them/advance them money. It's pretty much impossible to 'start your own business' if you are already living on the minimum wage and have been for some time: you won't have the spare money for equipment, premises or, even if it's something you can do from home. any kind of promotion or advertising. And the rentier economy has its claws into this as well: if you are an individual determined to have a go (at something like cleaning or dogwalking, for instance) you are up against the likes of Taskrabbit and various gig economy outfits, which will undercut you in terms of price and can afford a flashy website and big ads in the directories (and, by the way, can afford this because they give their staff no employment rights and underpay them.)

It's not surprising that MLMs, for instance, gain most of their 'new recruits' from people with little money to spare.

TheBrilliantMistake · 30/01/2018 22:06

I disagree. For some jobs, yes, there's a real barrier to entry to get started if you have no money.
But for a lot of other people, in the absence of being able to find work, they are pretty much 'forced' to start working for themselves, even on a very small scale.
An awful lot of startups are as simple as an electrician taking ad-hoc work on a sole trader basis, or a perhaps a lady who decides she can start selling her hand made curtains etc. There are masses of theses people, but you don't notice them, because they have no storefront, often work from home and drive plain vehicles.