Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Why do people think the government is some form of parent?

251 replies

soddingsoda · 29/01/2018 20:38

I've spent a lot of time in the US, i'm British but have a fair amount of family in the US.

While there's obviously huge social issues in the US, and I feel fortunate to be British I'm just not a fan of the British mentality. Someone said something the other day and it hit the nail on the head: If an American employee sees his boss turn up in a Mercedes he'll be envious and it will inspire him. The same situation happens in the UK the employee would be spiteful and call it unfair.

I have a second job working behind a bar once a week. Quite often when punters have had a drink they love to rant about the system. One woman 'debating' with the others then pointed to me. Apparently if there wasn't any foreigners over here I would be able to a council house. She seemed pretty stumped when I told her that it wasn't the governments responsibility to house me, I'm healthy, young, able to work and choose to live at home so I can save for a deposit and go travelling and spent a shit ton on starbucks.

Someone also had a conversation that she's had tooth ache for over a year as she needs a filling. She feels that she shouldn't have to pay for it as she pays taxes. I really wanted to point out that if she wasn't down the pub every week paying £3.50 a pint, she could easily pay for that filling within a month.

It's just really starting to grate on me, we live in such a privileged society where we get a free education, everyone has access to a fairly good health service and we have so many opportunities. I just want to give a good shake to some people and tell them to take responsibilities for their own lives as they're adults and that's what adults are meant to do.

OP posts:
treaclesoda · 30/01/2018 22:10

Most start ups are started by people who are already relatively comfortable

Totally agree. I often see articles written about a particular business which has done very well and has been built up from nothing by its owner and now has a turnover of millions and employs a lot of people. He has worked hard, no doubt about it. But what I've never seen any article mention is that the owner, who I was friends with in my younger years, didn't start it from scratch with no money. He came from a very middle class background and his parents were behind him. He could afford to take the risk of starting his own business because if it had all gone belly up he could have moved back into the (huge) family home to lick his wounds. Whereas for someone who is already poor, a failed business venture might mean sleeping in a shop doorway as a result.

Chocncofee · 30/01/2018 22:11

So very refreshing to see your attitude sodding soda. The attitude you’re talking about is why DH and I are going to Australia to live. I applaud you!

Kursk · 30/01/2018 22:13

Most start ups are started by people who are already relatively comfortable

I think most start ups are started by people willing to take the risk.

InfiniteCurve · 30/01/2018 22:16

Has anyone commented on the "everyone cares about their neighbours in the US" theme?
I have had cancer (UK) .Two of my closest friends have had cancer. We were supported by people helping,acquaintances did my school run,friends came and helped with housework,meal rotas and lift rotas were arranged.When my Dad was ill his relatively new neighbour took meals round for him.I see people all around me involved on a voluntary basis in their communities.No one said "the government should do it"
Americans do not have a monopoly of community involvement and caring on an individual basis - not compared to where I live anyway.

treaclesoda · 30/01/2018 22:17

I think most start ups are started by people willing to take the risk.

That's true as well, but the level of risk is different depending on whether you might have a safety net. When people take a risk and it pays off we (as a society) admire them for their get up and go. If they take a risk and it doesn't pay off, we view them as foolish and arrogant.

StillPissedOff · 30/01/2018 22:32

My experience: you cannot get people to behave better by treating them worse.
You cannot enable people to get themselves prosperous by making them poorer.
You cannot enable any self-respect in people when you are actively disrespecting them.

The only people who climb to the top in that sort of situation are bullies and psychopaths.

HelenaDove · 30/01/2018 22:43

Ive now completely lost count of the Mrs Birlings on this thread.

Tanith · 30/01/2018 22:51

“Someone said something the other day and it hit the nail on the head: If an American employee sees his boss turn up in a Mercedes he'll be envious and it will inspire him. The same situation happens in the UK the employee would be spiteful and call it unfair.“

Oh, the number of variations of this utter rubbish I have read over the years! Sometimes it’s a merc, sometimes it’s a goat (bizarre!), always it perpetuates the myth about the hardworking, aspirational Americans and the lazy, miserable Brits.

This attitude is the reason trickle-down economics will never work: it’s the selfish, entitled attitude that equates hard work with wealth. It proclaims that the well-off person deserves their wealth because they worked so hard for it (as if the rest of us don’t!) and blames the poor for their poverty.

Nothing more spiteful than benefit cuts and sanctions, Op!

birdseye2010 · 30/01/2018 23:12

I should have added that despite our problems in the UK with entitlement and lack of work ethic amongst many, I don’t think the US is a country I would look to emulate.

Last time I read, the US, UK and Italy are the three countries in the OECD with the highest correlation between father and son income (i.e. social mobility is the lowest).

pallisers · 31/01/2018 00:00

It's not Mummy and Daddy's job to house you either sweetheart but you're relying on them instead of being a proper grown up so maybe you should hush up a bit.

I know this was said to get a dig in at the OP, but this is such a strange concept to me. I do think it is my job to house my children if they need it. Family taking care of their own or community taking care of their own is the same concept as the government doing it. If her parents need her help when they are older are you going to laugh at them for not being "proper grown ups". In my experience proper grown ups need help from those closest to them at tough times, or to get launched, or to deal with new babies or old age etc. Those who don't have close family or community are terribly disadvantaged by this.

pallisers · 31/01/2018 00:04

sorry should have said Isn't the same exact concept as the government - left out a bit.

windchimesabotage · 31/01/2018 00:22

stillpissedoff good post!

Kursk · 31/01/2018 00:24

pallisers

Your right on that one, the OP’s parents helping her fits with the “community spirit” and not relying on the government.

OlennasWimple · 31/01/2018 01:10

I agree Pallisers

I find the list of the world's largest employers interesting. The US defence is the biggest, followed by the Chinese. Then two US retail behemoths. Then the NHS - how (and why) is the NHS the fifth biggest employer in the world?

Kursk · 31/01/2018 01:22

how (and why) is the NHS the fifth biggest employer in the world?

It has been for a long time. That fact may explain some of its budget problems!

frozenlake · 31/01/2018 01:27

I am currently in the US and although there is plenty to like the dysfunctional and crazily expensive healthcare system is not something I wish the U.K. to aspire to. The numbers of beggars, homeless people and people with unsupported mental health issues aren't either.
The state is much less hands off than many Americans believe and requires much more personal financial information than the U.K. does.
The lack of regulation means that there was no comeback for a friend whose gas tumblr had been venting into her loft for years causing a significant health hazard.
The U.K. is far from perfect but I am doubtful that copying the US will lead to a fairer, better functioning country.

Kursk · 31/01/2018 01:37

The climate of the US does effect the level of homelessness. For instance the Midwest and NE has low levels of homelessness as it’s way to cold in the winter.

Homeless people travel south and west to states where the climate is survivable outside all year round

user1497863568 · 31/01/2018 02:24

"My experience: you cannot get people to behave better by treating them worse.
You cannot enable people to get themselves prosperous by making them poorer.
You cannot enable any self-respect in people when you are actively disrespecting them.

The only people who climb to the top in that sort of situation are bullies and psychopaths."

This

frozenlake · 31/01/2018 02:56

I am in the Midwest kursk and I am really shocked by the amount of people on the streets, it must be pretty awful in other areas if it is worse! You are right it is bloody cold here at the moment I am sure people must die of cold.

Jessie2445 · 31/01/2018 09:40

There is a lot of rich and successful people who have come from nothing, who were not given any opportunities and have come from really bad, disadvantaged backgrounds. These people aspired for something better and were willing to work hard and do whatever it took to get there. Instead of “ poor me, life is so unfair, I wasn’t given a sliver platter, so better give up and feel sorry for myself.”

I’m stuck in my low paying job because I rather complain and feel sorry for myself than get training and find a better paying job.

Poor me, why should I pay private rent like other people are force to ? We both earn good money in good jobs but we deserve a council house. Council houses are for people like us, not those sleeping rough on the street, they can go without. And btw, a council house is for life and it’s something to be proud of.

Those are real life examples of the attitudes in this country.

Don’t buy your own house, have a career or successful business, have your kids in good schools, take care of your apperance, drive a nice car, because if you do, it means you think your better than us. No, you need to be held back and be kept down with the rest of us, who can’t be bothered to want anything better out of life than our council house, benefits or minimal wage jobs.

And I love the whole “posh” thing as having something nice, going somewhere nice, improving yourself or being successful is a really bad thing.

OlennasWimple · 31/01/2018 10:54

There are plenty of homeless people in the NE of the US too, particularly in the metro areas. A disproportionate number seem to be ex-service men - for all the discounts, support and general praise for members of the armed forces in the US, they seem to be less than stellar at providing the mental health services needed to help them back into civvy street

corythatwas · 31/01/2018 10:55

It's how you define "something better" isn't it? To me, driving around in a Merc while there are people in the same town who can't get to see a doctor wouldn't seem like a better life, it wouldn't be better for me, it would just make me feel like shit. As it is, knowing that there are foodbanks in the city where I do live impairs my quality of life. I think that's called being a human being.

There is nothing wrong with having nice things. There is everything wrong with not wanting everybody to have a decent quality of life.

birdseye2010 · 31/01/2018 12:00

The US defence is the biggest, followed by the Chinese. Then two US retail behemoths. Then the NHS - how (and why) is the NHS the fifth biggest employer in the world?

The US defence is a big money pit. It's the largest waste of money in the world.

treaclesoda · 31/01/2018 12:40

Those are real life examples of the attitudes in this country.

I don't think they're a particularly common attitude though? Most people are constantly striving for more. And are encouraged to strive for more.

Although whether that's a good thing or not is entirely debatable.