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AIBU?

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Original poster

Why do people think the government is some form of parent?

251 replies

soddingsoda · 29/01/2018 20:38

I've spent a lot of time in the US, i'm British but have a fair amount of family in the US.

While there's obviously huge social issues in the US, and I feel fortunate to be British I'm just not a fan of the British mentality. Someone said something the other day and it hit the nail on the head: If an American employee sees his boss turn up in a Mercedes he'll be envious and it will inspire him. The same situation happens in the UK the employee would be spiteful and call it unfair.

I have a second job working behind a bar once a week. Quite often when punters have had a drink they love to rant about the system. One woman 'debating' with the others then pointed to me. Apparently if there wasn't any foreigners over here I would be able to a council house. She seemed pretty stumped when I told her that it wasn't the governments responsibility to house me, I'm healthy, young, able to work and choose to live at home so I can save for a deposit and go travelling and spent a shit ton on starbucks.

Someone also had a conversation that she's had tooth ache for over a year as she needs a filling. She feels that she shouldn't have to pay for it as she pays taxes. I really wanted to point out that if she wasn't down the pub every week paying £3.50 a pint, she could easily pay for that filling within a month.

It's just really starting to grate on me, we live in such a privileged society where we get a free education, everyone has access to a fairly good health service and we have so many opportunities. I just want to give a good shake to some people and tell them to take responsibilities for their own lives as they're adults and that's what adults are meant to do.

OP posts:
MargaretCavendish · 30/01/2018 07:27

I think it's pretty bizarre that in this thread about how people in the US feel no envy of those richer than them because they know that they can get there if they work hard enough, no one has mentioned the groundswell of resentment and feeling betrayed by the system that led to Trump's election.

MinnieMousse · 30/01/2018 07:54

If an American employee sees his boss turn up in a Mercedes he'll be envious and it will inspire him. The same situation happens in the UK the employee would be spiteful and call it unfair.

What is unfair though is that an estate agent can turn up to work in a Mercedes but a nurse who probably works as hard, if not harder will be driving a battered Nissan Micra. Societies such as the US and increasingly the UK rely on people to have the vocation to do jobs such as nursing, teaching, social work etc as the high-paying jobs are the ones that involving making lots of profit rather than doing anything useful for society.

BertrandRussell · 30/01/2018 07:56

"If an American employee sees his boss turn up in a Mercedes he'll be envious and it will inspire him"

Yeah-because it's so easy to work your way up from janitor to MD.

SuperBeagle · 30/01/2018 07:56

Minnie All jobs are useful. If the need for them wasn't there, the jobs wouldn't exist.

treaclesoda · 30/01/2018 08:00

All jobs are useful.

All jobs are useful to the person doing them because they earn money for doing it. I'm not sure that all jobs are useful to society at large though. Eg Telephone sales people cold calling and relying on the fact that some people struggle to say no, or are elderly or confused or vulnerable, isn't useful to anyone except the person chasing their bonus.

treaclesoda · 30/01/2018 08:01

Although I certainly think that the vast majority of jobs are generally useful.

RedForFilth · 30/01/2018 08:15

Do you not think you're massively privileged to live at home whilst saving and travelling? Myself and most of my peers were "invited to leave" our family homes at 16 or some 18.

Just because we have some benefits to living in this country does not mean it isn't hard when we are struggling to make ends meet. No one says "I don't have enough electric on the meter to cook tea but at least we have the NHS". Some people don't have the means to help themselves. And with disability benefits being cut, minimum wage that doesn't keep up with rising living costs and lack of housing whether council or private, some people are just fucked.

Maybe you should be counting your personal blessings instead of whinging about stingers.

RedForFilth · 30/01/2018 08:16

Whingers even!

SirWibbles209 · 30/01/2018 08:21

lol sorry OP but America is nothing to aspire to. I have a long term health condition and am in a support group on Facebook, quite a few of the Americans have had to declare bankruptcy because their insurance won't cover their medical bills. Thank god for the NHS. I am able to work, live on my own and stay healthy due to the NHS. If I was in America I'm not sure how i would afford my
Medication to do so. We have poverty over here but have you been to skid row?!

SirWibbles209 · 30/01/2018 08:22

Also living at home to save for travelling and a deposit Grin good for you, would be nice to remember not everyone has the same privilege as you.

legolammb · 30/01/2018 08:32

Having studied some of the health inequalities in the US, including people getting tropical diseases formerly only seen in developing countries, kids in the south getting hookworm etc due to lack of access to sanitation, I think I'll keep our UK system thanks, imperfect as it may be.

I was utterly horrified visiting San Francisco by the sheer volume of homeless people, with very obvious disabilities and mental health problems - I don't know how people can sleep at night with all that going on. We're catching up in the UK, but nowhere near the same extent

barefoofdoctor · 30/01/2018 08:59

It is the inequality in this country, the huge and growing gap between rich and poor which fuels these feelings along with a government who infantalise the nation with all their rules, health and safety etc. This along with Blair opening the floodgates to all and sundry and welcoming them to our tiny and over populated island then screeching 'racist' at anyone who dares question the effect on the NHS etc. Though to be fair your pint drinking lady was probably just pissed and venting her spleen.

LifeBeginsAtGin · 30/01/2018 08:59

We have a terrible work ethic in this country. If MN is a cross section of society it demonstrates may people end up in NMW jobs and stay there. There is no aspiration to do better. Time after time you read "DP and I are NMW jobs", or "I'm a carer".

We live in a society with free education, free healthcare and free contraception & a fairly good infrastructure etc.

People literally kill themselves walking halfway around the world to get here to take advantage of this, and they do, and they prosper. Whilst the Brits won't move a few miles north for a better standard of living and cheaper housing, they just sit with their hands cupped waiting for other people to sort their lives out.

KERALA1 · 30/01/2018 09:05

Surely, looking at it very broadly, there are pros and cons to both models.

The downside of the American culture is that if you are poor or vulnerable you can get horrifically left behind. That's awful but gives people real drive and self reliance. Philanthropy is big over there.

Here people are supported and helped so society less harsh for the vulnerable and we all get free at point of use healthcare and education. But the downside of that is what the op has identified.

Afternoon · 30/01/2018 09:06

I don't like the terminology in the US of labelling people as a "winner" or a "loser". I admire the aspirational thing but also like the thought that we should take care of the less fortunate. How we do so is up for much debate though.

Softkitty2 · 30/01/2018 09:08

I think the sum of it all is life is unfair.

We can't all be equals driving mercedes benz, in order for society to function someone needs to work at the top and bottom.

Education doesn't equal higher pay or a good wage e.g a pp mentioning estate agents vs nurses

The system is broken and if there is a loophole to be found someone will find it and exploit it.

RedForFilth · 30/01/2018 09:12

Honestly makes me feel ill the amount of people on here who essentially dont want to have to feel any sympathy so invent superiority/inferiority. Poverty is NOT a moral failing, it really could happen to anyone. this times a million!

LifeBeginsAtGin wtf is wrong with being a carer? I doubt you'll have that attitude if you need care. We improve the quality of people's lives every day, without us some of our service users would die. And it doesn't mean we don't have aspiration. I love what I do. And have just landed a management position in care. I see colleagues work their way up all the time. There is no shame in being a carer.

makeourfuture · 30/01/2018 09:13

We can't all be equals driving mercedes benz

It is interesting that some here assume we all like these cars.

Quite frankly they are driving a flaming spear through the heart of the planet, and the carbon they spew will add to the terrible suffering of people - mostly poor people - now and in the future.

RedBlackberries · 30/01/2018 09:15

£3.50 a pint?! Do you work in 2005?

claraschu · 30/01/2018 09:16

What condition would the planet be in if 7 billion people had Mercedeses?

What both countries need is for the rich person to get rid of the Mercedes and take the bus or bike. If we don't do something about the rampant consumption and obsession with constant growth, we are all doomed (the poor doomed more quickly than the rich).

Biglettuce · 30/01/2018 09:18

I think it is good for any nation to get an outside perspective.

I agree with many points, there is a lot of expecting the government to provide - although we have a great NHS which is under real threat - but to keep it going the able and fit should be working and paying for teeth etc.

I find it especially so with child maintenance - the small amounts mostly men are expected to pay because the government will fill in the rest (or the mother juggling jobs and childcare). Really it’s us as parents who should be providing for our children, not the state unless in exceptional circumstances.

There is poverty and the class system here. However I don’t have any time for young able whingers, wherever they come from, if you can work, bloody work! I’ve cleaned toilets, worked in factories, it’s crap but you do it. There is a loss of a ‘can do’ attitude here.

Those that really need welfare in the UK, I feel get let down. The disabled, those with mental health problems. But they might be less obvious than the moaners down the pub OP!

makeourfuture · 30/01/2018 09:21

What both countries need is for the rich person to get rid of the Mercedes and take the bus or bike.

exactly.

RedHelenB · 30/01/2018 09:21

I don't aspire to a Mercedes or a big house or designer gear And I don't particularly admire those who work hard to get them or envy them I think society should have room for all and a decent standard of living. And yes the role of government is to govern and provide for those that cannot provide for themselves , an education, health service etc.

WrenNatsworthy · 30/01/2018 09:24

I don't want a mercedes.
What the OP fails to understand is that some of us don't care about accumulating 'stuff'.

IfNot · 30/01/2018 09:35

Thinking about the (true) idea of Americans all coming out to clear the snow on their street and Brits waiting for the council (or noone) to do it..Americans have a tradition of neighbourliness and community maybe because of that frontier spirit, pulling together etc.
Conversely, especially since the 80s, we have tended to be less involved with our neighbours. I think part of the reason we don't come out to clear ice off our patch of pavement is pure British social awkwardness.
I bet that if everyone was allocated a seperate time slot to clear their bit, and they didnt have to speak to anyone people would adhere to that!