School want a letter of apology

[GlassesOn]

My year six son got picked for his schools football team, the team train one day a week and sometimes have matches on those days too. (We all pay £30 per term).

The football coach is quite young, a bit impatient, never speaks to the parents, even after a match, quite dismissive when the boys try to talk to him and I’ve seen him mostly on his phone during training pausing to look up to comment how rubbish they’re are playing is one example.

There have been a few incidents that I haven’t been completely happy with and I told my son I didn’t want him to go back to the team after Christmas but he said he wanted to stay on the team because he had friends in the team etc

First day of January training my husband turns up to pick our son up at the Astro turf pitch (in the school) but no one was there... my husband was confused and went round the school to find them, as no notice had been given to us that training would be held in another place.

After 5 minutes, he found our son in the after school ‘kids club’ because training had finished early (for no reason we’ve heard yet,) he was placed in there as he wasn’t allowed to hang around on his own to wait for his dad, we were told we were being charged £10 for this.

My husband explained to the kids club manager about the training finishing early and if the training had finished at the advertised time on their website then our son wouldn’t have been put into kids club, she agreed to leave off the charge.

Last week my eldest picked her brother up and was told no training had taken place at all, as during the warm up some of the boys were laughing and joking and as punishment they had all been placed on benches in the playground and sat there for over an hour.

My daughter said my son was freezing cold and I phoned the kids club to clarify what had gone on as I was still at work.

I was advised to email a complaint as she wasn’t in charge of the after school clubs, just the kids club which I did.

I received a phone call the next afternoon while at work and got a barrage of attitude by the after school clubs manager, she told me she had investigated the incident throughly that the coach said the kids were acting like animals and put them on the bench until they were ready, I told her I would accept what you’re saying until I’ve spoken to my son again when I got home and if this was the case why didn’t he make them all run around or do some sort of physical exercise as their ‘punishment’? That’s what his old coach used to do if one of them played up, (run around the pitch 3 times etc as that soon made them calm down.“)

It was near freezing that evening and if I stuck my son in the garden for an hour and a half to sit on a bench as punishment I’m sure social services would be called by the school.

I then asked about the previous incident of the coach just packing up whenever he feel like it and she said reconsidering it now she would be charging us £10 for that, as my son wasn’t signed out until 4.50pm even though it took 5 mins for my husband to find where our son was as no note had been left to say training had finished early or moved to another area, but she didn’t want to discuss that.

The head teacher also pulled all the children into her office and told them that they are lying about the incident and it hadn’t been just giggling and that the coach said that they were really naughty.

They have been instructed to write a apology letter to the coach, they also miss their playtime on Monday and are barred from playing on the Astro turf pitch for the rest of term.

So even though all of them say it was just a bit of giggling they are being punished for weeks on end and that’s (after the original punishment of sitting in the cold) & missing their training. Oh and they’ve also being threatened by the head teacher that their year 6 PGL place may be taken away from them (we’ve paid nearly £400 for the trip).

It’s basically the boys word against the coach and the head teacher has decided that the kids are lying.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for clarity regarding the two incidents? I’ve told my son he isn’t going back to training but this time he is also okay with it.

Or should I just let it drop? WWYD?

Are parents able to go along and watch training?

Have the two parents you've contacted given you the same story? I think you need to see of they have the same version of events before you go in because if they don't you will look pretty foolish

I think Youarenotkiddingme 's letter is way too confrontational to start with. Remember the head has very little knowledge of what's been going on except what the coach and Afterschool club manager has told her. She has only heard that the dcs are behaving terribly. She probably doesn't know about the regular cutting short of the sessions. She doesn't know about the length of time he kept them sitting in the cold. She doesn't know that he doesn't talk to parents.

Instead of going in with a slightly mealy-mouthed apology and threats of governors, I'd suggest you spell out very clearly your concerns about the coaching sessions and explain clearly that ds will be withdrawing from the club because the coach is not exercising his duty of care.

List dates, events and mention the concern ds's' felt when he couldn't locate ds.

Thanks mad

Ds attended a secondary school (for a bit ) who had interests elsewhere than the child's best interests!

I've had practice at towing the line whilst making sure my son wasn't walked all over and treated poorly.

My favourite one was DS HT basically telling them I didn't know what he needs as his parent (he's autistic) and they have expertise in asd as they've been on courses.
She then proceeded to tell me that ds difficulties I'm expressing are probably sensory related and they are talking about it becoming a diagnostic criteria

I sent a beautiful email basically saying....

I'm very sorry you do not feel I am supportive of the school and that I'm trying to force my knowledge of ds and the way we do things above your own school policy and process.
Thankyou for recognising the sensory needs being part of asd criteria and being aware of recent changes to criteria. As you'll see from ds paperwork he was diagnosed under this criteria as out local area already adopted it 3 years ago. Here's a copy of his sensory OT report which needs to be followed daily and if you have any difficulties getting OT in to train staff please let me know and I can see if I can help.
Also Thankyou for stating that you are confident in your staffs expertise of asd - especially after attending X course.
Thankyou for also confirming to all those present at the meeting you think this course gives staff a high level of knowledge and expertise as the course is excellent and those who run it are highly knowledgable.
I look forward to your response in how his sensory diet will be incorporated and if you need any further advice after attending the course I'll be happy to assist or offer suggestions - as I am one of the course trainers for county

I don't necessarily agree on a PA approach or using sarcasm - but with some types of personality it's the only way to get their attention!

The ht is fully aware of what's happening re coach and finish in earlier - or at least should be aware of exactly what's happening on her property!

love it!

I'm still waiting to hear from the parents (I emailed so they may not have seen them yet).

But my point is regarding the whole sorry business is-did any bad behaviour warrant the punishment of being out in the freezing cold for over an hour?

Then I have an issue of the club finishing early and being charged for it, no reports of bad behaviour then, I might add.

Then the OTT extra punishments being dealt out.

Even if my son is lying through his teeth and they were all screaming, running around and fighting instead of just laughing during warm up then what is the policy regarding this? Will they put them out in the cold every time someone speaks out of turn in class for instance?

Can I stick my son in the garden in near freezing temperatures as punishment when he misbehaves at home?

What would the school say if he told them I do that?

Accept that as suitable punishment?

Or flag it up as a safe guarding issue? I know which one it would be.. so why is it cool for an adult who works for the school to do that.?

And that's my whole point.

And an excellent point grass

Thing is, if they were “acting like animals”, fighting, going crazy etc then how would he be able to get them to sit on benches for over an hour?

Hi GlassesOn
I really feel for you with this situation - I am having problems with a sports coach at my son’s school; aggressive attitude towards my son, lacks skills in communicating constructively with him or how to de-escalate unwanted behaviour. I can only speak for my son as I haven’t witnessed one of his classes. Basically, I was called in to see the head teacher as my son had said he had grabbed his hand and squeezed it whilst dragging him back in to the room after lesson and then slapped him on the shoulder. My son was extremely upset but the teachers involved seemed to get him to say it wasn’t true - I know my son would have said this out of sheer compliance and said what he thought was the ‘correct’ answer rather than the ‘real’ one. I can not describe how frustrated and sad I feel at the moment, knowing that my 8 year old son is telling the truth but felt bulldozed in to saying he was basically lying!!

fickleflock I'm so sorry your son is having to deal with that. I would be livid. I appreciate every teacher who works with our children but like in any role there are some amazing teachers and some who shouldn't be allowed ten feet from a school.

The truth is some HT and schools will constantly add other things or change their mind about things (here is cost) just to not be in the wrong and keep parent and child 'in there place'

Luckily these institutions and their staff are very rare and most schools have a fantastic ethos and leadership team. But when you come across these schools it's so hard to get others to understand because it's totally incomprehensible to some that it can happen.

My explain my experience of ds old school as the same as being gaslighted.

His current school will admit when something's has gone wrong, will stick to their policy and their beliefs (which can differ from mine), but will explain their course of actions and why and also seek to rectify the issue. They don't automatically take side of staff or student or assume parent is in the wrong and standing up for their child under some sort of misplaced loyalty.

Heads cannot know everything that happens in every session on their premises unless they are told.

I'd bet my bottom Euro that the coach has said to the head all the dcs were behaving appallingly so I made them take time out and sit on the benches quietly .
(Head thinks - ah yes, appropriate consequence. No problem.)

AS club manager says DS's dad wasn't there to collect him when he finished football so the coach sent him to the after school club .
(Head thinks, yes sensible safeguarding and irresponsible parenting.)

Coach does not say I made the dcs sit on the bench in freezing temperatures for over an hour . AS manager does not say the football session was cut short again

It's sensible to spell out your concerns in writing even if you think the head is aware. If you don't specifically say what the problem is then you make yourself look ragey and ridiculous and if it does get to governor level they'll just say but you never said there was a problem.

Is the club run by the school or a separate provider? I'm assuming by the school as there are school-related punishments such as missing playtimes. In this case, I would ask for a copy of the school's behaviour policy. I doubt it says anything in there about sitting out in the cold for an hour being a suitable method of discipline.

I am a KS2 teacher and have run after-school sports clubs for Y5/6. The behaviour can be challenging outside of the classroom environment but I can't imagine a scenario where sitting in a freezing playground was a suitable response. If the behaviour was so terrible that it warranted the session being cancelled (rather than just stopped for a couple of minutes until they could be quiet) then the appropriate thing to do would be to take them inside to get changed and sit in there.

The coach is bought in from an outside agency my son has since told me. Which would make sense as I couldn't find out his name on the staff list on the schools website

Well any good HT would find out the facts before piling more punishments on children. Especially when faced with parents querying what has been said.

HT obviously believes what was said in its entirety- or she wouldn't be acting as she is.

The threat of banning the end of year trip is bizarre and so far out proportion that it makes me wonder if perhaps some of the boys were habitually badly behaved in school and this is the straw that broke the camels back.

I would get together with the other parents and write a very strongly worded letter to whoever it is that is responsible for the head teacher's employment.

Either the agency should have its own behaviour policy available to parents or they should agree to follow the school policy.

Goodness me, what a mess. Is this school a kind of arrogant one, where no one would ever apologise for mistakes made. Because I suspect it is?

No apology should be made by your son. I think this should be taken further, but I fear you won't achieve much.

Op, I honestly think you need to ask the school for their version of events before you make a complaint otherwise you could end up looking ridiculous.

Can you get a copy of the school's behaviour policy?

Good luck. I think you are absolutely right to complain.

And I would argue that sitting out in the cold is an inappropriate punishment for any scenario. If the school genuinely feels that the behaviour of the pupils in the club is that bad, they need to find an appropriate solution. In my school, pupils who have shown they can't behave in a club are told they cannot attend in future. Or the agency could send two staff members (the outside provider who runs the football club at my school provides two coaches).

There are three key issues at play here, unfortunately they overlap and that's clouds the issue:

Firstly, the actual 'naughtiness' incident.
It's the old case of the children's word against his. Not much you can do on this score without evidence.

His professionalism.
Again, anecdotal evidence of him using his phone isn't much. He might argue he was using a stopwatch feature, or responding to an urgent matter and was no more distracted than had a colleague interrupted him.
The cancelling of sessions or ended them early however leads me on to the third issue

Cancelling sessions / ending them early.
There is a duty of care to ensure the children are held safely until parents arrive (even if parents are late, the duty of care remains him / the organisers). It is without doubt prudent to keep all parents informed of any change to the situation at the earliest opportunity, but if there is a change whilst the children are already in his care, they must remain under his care (or another elected person from the organisation) until you arrive.
You also mentioned a location change - are we talking a few yards, or a few miles? if the latter, this is unreasonable. If the former, that's ok.
You have a right to have a clear understanding of you child's location.
It would be churlish to object to him moving the children into a sportshall if that was adjacent to a field, but it would be entirely correct to complain if the venue had changed to another location entirely without your knowledge (i.e. a mile down the road).

I could frame any letter of complain at the third issue - the lack of communication about changes to events and locations. A simple get out clause of 'we reserve the right to change times / locations' is not enough. They still have a duty to inform you, once your child is under their supervision.

They CAN just cancel willy nilly beforehand (but in that situation, you haven't handed over responsibility to them), but once they have your child, absolutely no way can they play 'ad-hoc' with you.

Once in a while, a rare circumstance might happen - the guy might have an accident, or there is a personal emergency, but in that situation, the organisation must have a strategy for taking care of your child (without charge!).

I would be a little suspicious about the demands for apology letters as they could be used for the school to defend their actions should the parents complain. I have had experience with my child's ex school doing this to absolve themselves of responsibility when they acted in an unprofessional way. If your son writes an apology please ensure he points out it was for giggling and the comment as a more general apology will be able to be used to say that the children are fully at fault and the coach and school were punishing for bad behaviour as admitted in apology letter. It was wrong to punish them on a bench in freezing weather in sports clothes and I think the school are trying to get out of this, hence the HT only wanting to discuss what she wanted and the reinstatement of the ten pound fee seems manipulative so you get angry about that and focus on that rather than the school and coach's inappropriate and excessive punishments. In my experience teachers often back up other teachers or people working with the school, regardless of whether it seems clear the adult was at fault in at least some ways x