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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

The one in which Trump orders his staff to fire Mueller, and they give him the finger

986 replies

PerkingFaintly · 26/01/2018 12:14

Apparently this has already happened, back in July 2017. Shock

But the orange one try again...

Trump Ordered Mueller Fired, but Backed Off When White House Counsel Threatened to Quit
www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/us/politics/trump-mueller-special-counsel-russia.html

Coverage by Maddow: twitter.com/maddow?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3142761-All-Trump-sees-is-green-All-we-see-is-a-traitorous-orange-menace-Who-is-right-Place-bets-now-Trump-continued?pg=1

OP posts:
Thread gallery
25
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 02/02/2018 19:42

Steele’s dossier was first paid for by the RNC, not the DNC. It also wasn’t the reason the investigation was launched.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 02/02/2018 19:46

Chris Hayes
@chrislhayes
We know now the FBI was actively investigating both campaigns during the 2016 election but only chose to publicly announce (repeatedly!) their investigation of Clinton while keeping the Trump campaign investigation completely secret the entire time.

If anyone working on the Trump investigation wanted to hurt Trump in 2016 they could have leaked details of the investigation. They did not. In fact, FBI sources went so far as to tell the Times there was no Russia connection!
(There were a number of anti-Clinton leaks)

And all this is, apparently, evidence that the FBI was engaged in a conspiracy to get Clinton elected?

Literally none of this makes any sense and it's an insult to everyone's intelligence.

And it's depressing as hell to watching smart people pretend to be this stupid.

Justanotherlurker · 02/02/2018 19:46

The memo acknowledges that Papadopoulos was what triggered the fbi investigation in july 2016. Not seeing any problems here.

Although it is a bit of nothing and Page was known beforehand, this is about the renewal, as I said earlier Steele leaking parts of his dossier to yahoo news and then citing Yahoo news extensively is an issue, to top that, the fact that the dossier was largely unverified and funded by the opposing political campaign which is known publicly and by the top brass of the FBI and they still omitted those facts from the warrant application is very serious and hypocritical.

thebewilderness · 02/02/2018 19:47

The history of the identities that paid for the oppo research needs to be listed.
The memo is both claiming and implying that the FBI agents and directors lied to the FISA Court to get authorization for surveillance of a known Russian agent who is a US citizen.

thebewilderness · 02/02/2018 19:49

Do you think they should have included in the FISA request the fact that the oppo research was paid for by a Republican running against Trump for the nomination?

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 02/02/2018 20:04

Manu Raju‏
@mkraju
I asked Nunes staff what they changed in memo that House members were NOT aware of at time of vote:
They said: A deletion of information for national security reasons -- at FBI's request
The other: The precise characterization of the FISA's application use of the Yahoo article

Democrats have said that there were "five material changes" to the memo that members were not aware of when the House panel voted to release it

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 02/02/2018 20:05

Kyle Cheney
@kyledcheney
MEMO UPDATE: SCHIFF tells reporters that only portions of the Steele Dossier the ones about Page were presented to the FISA Court.

"Some of those things were already subject to corroboration."

Schiff also says that the memo's contention that MCCABE said the warrant wouldn't have happened without the dossier was "cherrypicked" and that he was talking about how all elements of FISA applications are interconnected and important.

Justanotherlurker · 02/02/2018 20:06

Do you not?

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 02/02/2018 20:07

Renato Mariotti‏Verified account
@renato_mariotti
THREAD: What should we make of the Nunes memo? (Short answer: Not much.)

1/ Today, with Trump's authorization, the Nunes memo was released. I just reviewed the memo and I'll walk you through it, but my initial reaction to the memo was "this is it?" It's very underwhelming, given the amount of hype and vitriol directed at the FBI and DOJ based on it.

2/ One piece of context that you need to have as you read the memo is that FISA warrants are approved by judges who read a whole lot of information that is presented to them with an application. They're lengthy and contain a lot of evidence.

3/ We haven't read the FISA applications at issue here, but they were certainly much longer than this memo and contained a lot of information not discussed in this short memo.

4/ By way of background, FISA applications permit the government to listen to conversations of foreign agents. They're reviewed by federal judges who are appointed to a special court that reviews those applications.

5/ So when the memo says that the dossier was an "essential part" of the FISA application for Carter Page, the argument it's making is that the judge wouldn't have signed that warrant if the dossier wasn't part of the application, even though there was other evidence presented.

6/ The argument being made in the memo is an argument that is often made by people who are wiretapped and want to challenge the warrant. They're saying that the government omitted details that would have caused the judge not to sign the warrant.

7/ That is a really, really uphill battle in court. Essentially they're saying that the judge wouldn't have signed this warrant if he or she knew that Fusion GPS was paid by a law firm that represented the DNC. That's hard to believe.

8/ Courts often deny challenges to warrants where the government presented information from a cooperator but didn't mention important details like prior convictions that would impact their truthfulness. It's really hard to imagine this detail impacting a court's view of Steele.

9/ After all, Steele is an intelligence professional, not a criminal who is cooperating in hopes of a reduced sentence. As sources of information go, he is a pretty credible one.

10/ Until we get more context, it's impossible to evaluate just how legally irrelevant the arguments in the Nunes memo are. Perhaps the minority memo will provide some of that context. But I'd be surprised if the memo was more than a short-lived publicity stunt.

11/ One potential long-term consequence of the memo is that media reports today suggest that Trump released the memo in order to undermine the Mueller investigation and/or fire Rosenstein.

12/ If true, it could be used by Mueller as evidence of Trump's "corrupt" intent for purposes of his obstruction investigation. Trump is making a mistake by personally involving himself in the attack on Mueller and Rosenstein and sharing his strong feelings with others. /end

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 02/02/2018 20:12

Mike Levine
@MLevineReports
Atty Gen Jeff Sessions went off script at human trafficking event this morn to praise Deputy Atty Gen Rod Rosenstein, a reported target of Nunes memo. Noting Rosenstein has 27 yrs at DOJ, Sessions said Rosenstein represents "the kind of quality & leadership that we want" in DOJ.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 02/02/2018 20:14

Pé Resists
@4everNeverTrump
Notice how we're not talking about Trump refusing to implement sanctions on Monday against Russia and the Treasury Department issuing a list of Russian oligarchs copied from Forbes?

Both would be months-long scandals in any previous administration.

And

Andrea Chalupa‏
@AndreaChalupa
#NunesMemo is the stuff of a reality TV producer. Orchestrated suspense/drama. Distracted from bigger story: No Russian sanctions or bombshell corruption report on Putin's mafia state following US visit of heads of Russia's intelligence agencies that led attack on our democracy.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 02/02/2018 20:15

Benjamin Weiser‏Verified account
@BenWeiserNYT
Federal judge in NY grants U.S. motion to enforce its $5.9 million settlement with Prevezon in longstanding litigation that arose from an alleged $230 million Russian tax refund fraud scheme that was uncovered by Sergei Magnitsky. #Prevezon @Billbrowder

Bill Browder‏Verified account
@Billbrowder
BREAKING: US court forces Veselnitskaya’s client Prevezon to pay $5.9m to US government to settle money laundering case connected to $230m that Sergei Magnitsky exposed

The US court order that Prevezon pay $5.9m to the US government is in addition to the $7m of Prevezon funds frozen under a Swiss money laundering case and the €3m frozen under a Dutch money laundering case.

cozietoesie · 02/02/2018 20:15

Interesting, Pain.

Oh.

Wall St.

One gets you ten that if 45 mentions it, he'll try to blame the Dems in some way. Smile

Justanotherlurker · 02/02/2018 20:16

So these threads are just reposting Twitter links in full rather than discussing...

cozietoesie · 02/02/2018 20:19

Not at all. Smile

You have to keep up is all.

thebewilderness · 02/02/2018 20:19

Executive branch of the US government refuses to execute laws passed by Legislative branch. That is a constitutional crisis.

thebewilderness · 02/02/2018 20:21

I do not think it matters who pays for oppo research post Citizens United. I do think that identifying material as a product of oppo research is necessary and standard.

cozietoesie · 02/02/2018 20:23

I think that Nunes is finished, politically now. He could take lots of phone calls from 'important people' before the 'memo' was released but now he's shot his bolt. It's all downhill for him.

thebewilderness · 02/02/2018 20:24

When Trump minions say adoption people should always think Magnitsky.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 02/02/2018 20:24

cozie do you remember you posted a chilling article a long time ago about constitutional convention? I saw an article on it that I meant to post on here yesterday (but got a bit distracted Wink)

Jennifer Cohn
@jennycohn1
#KochBrothers vehicle ALEC admits on its own website that it is behind the push for a #ConstitutionalConvention. Website boasted in September of 2017 that it already had 27 of the 34 states required. (That # is now up to 28).

www.alec.org/article/history-was-made-in-phoenix-this-month/

thebewilderness · 02/02/2018 20:26

They want to get rid of the 14th and the 19th Amendments. Who knows what all else at this point on the road to perdition.

cozietoesie · 02/02/2018 20:26

I think I recall, Pain. But that was 186 years ago or something. We're in uncharted waters now.

Justanotherlurker · 02/02/2018 20:28

Then you obviously have no understanding the the FBI should be detached, nor do I think you grasp that it is still unverified and one of the key points of the extension highlighted Yahoo news which was leaked to them.

Know the FBI will have to come back with proof to counter the partisan leak, but as it stands on face value, it is a serious fuck up, however you politically align.

I also suspect that if the opposite research was funded by Trump you would not be so forgiving.

Justanotherlurker · 02/02/2018 20:29

Shit spelling, dyslexia and stupid tablet, sorry

cozietoesie · 02/02/2018 20:32

But the FBI can't answer any of the points without compounding.............

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