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The one in which Trump orders his staff to fire Mueller, and they give him the finger

986 replies

PerkingFaintly · 26/01/2018 12:14

Apparently this has already happened, back in July 2017. Shock

But the orange one try again...

Trump Ordered Mueller Fired, but Backed Off When White House Counsel Threatened to Quit
www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/us/politics/trump-mueller-special-counsel-russia.html

Coverage by Maddow: twitter.com/maddow?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3142761-All-Trump-sees-is-green-All-we-see-is-a-traitorous-orange-menace-Who-is-right-Place-bets-now-Trump-continued?pg=1

OP posts:
Thread gallery
25
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 01/02/2018 07:32

Third time’s a charm Blush

The one in which Trump orders his staff to fire Mueller, and they give him the finger
The one in which Trump orders his staff to fire Mueller, and they give him the finger
Fekko · 01/02/2018 07:34

Gas as in petrol or, err gas?

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 01/02/2018 07:36

Renato Mariotti‏
@renato_mariotti
THREAD: What does the latest @nytimes article about the highly misleading statement crafted by Trump about the Trump Tower meeting tell us about the Mueller investigation?

1/ Today the @nytimes published this piece discussing Mueller’s interest in the highly misleading statement crafted by Trump and his aides about the Trump Tower meeting.

2/ The article is full of interesting tidbits. Perhaps the most bizarre revelation is that some Trump aides can’t understand why Mueller cares about the episode:

Some lawyers and witnesses who have sat in or been briefed on the interviews have puzzled over Mr. Mueller’s interest in the episode. Lying to federal investigators is a crime; lying to the news media is not. For that reason, some of Mr. Trump’s advisers argue that Mr. Mueller has no grounds to ask the president about the statement and say he should refuse to discuss it.

3/ They’re right that lying to the press is generally not a crime. But as I explained in detail in this @thehill piece in August, the episode raises some serious questions. One key question: Why was Trump motivated to craft this statement?

thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-administration/344795-with-one-dictated-statement-trump-may-build-the

4/ As I wrote, “His decision to do so would suggest that he was highly motivated to shape his son's account of the purpose of the meeting ... to hide the truth about the meeting from the public or a desire to influence his son's account of what happened.”

5/ At the time, I raised other questions, one of which is partially answered in this article: “Did [Trump Jr.] object at all to the president's characterization of the meeting in the statement?”

6/ The article explains how the highly misleading statement was written, and notes that Trump insisted on writing the meeting was about adoptions, even though the emails established that the purpose of the meeting was to get dirt on Hillary Clinton from the Russians:

The president supervised the writing of the statement, according to three people familiar with the episode, with input from other White House aides. A fierce debate erupted over how much information the news release should include. Mr. Trump was insistent about including language that the meeting was about Russian adoptions, according to two people with knowledge of the discussion.

7/ The final statement said that they “primarily” discussed adoptions, a word the @nytimes reports Trump Jr. insisted upon. What did he tell his father about what was discussed in that meeting? How did Trump respond? It’s obvious why this would matter to Mueller.

“It was a short introductory meeting,” it read. “I asked Jared and Paul to stop by. We primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children that was active and popular with American families years ago and was since ended by the Russian government, but it was not a campaign issue at that time and there was no follow up.”

8/ The most widely reported detail in the story involves Trump aide Hope Hicks. Trump spokesperson Corallo pointed out that emails contradict the “adoptions” story, and he alleges Hicks said the emails will “never get out,” leading him to be concerned she would obstruct justice.

Mr. Corallo is planning to tell Mr. Mueller about a previously undisclosed conference call with Mr. Trump and Hope Hicks, the White House communications director, according to the three people. Mr. Corallo planned to tell investigators that Ms. Hicks said during the call that emails written by Donald Trump Jr. before the Trump Tower meeting — in which the younger Mr. Trump said he was eager to receive political dirt about Mrs. Clinton from the Russians — “will never get out.” That left Mr. Corallo with concerns that Ms. Hicks could be contemplating obstructing justice, the people said.

9/ She disputes the account, and she could also claim that she was only suggesting that they lie to the press and the public, which is not a crime. That said, destroying emails to prevent them from being subpoenaed is a crime. Improperly influencing testimony is also a crime.

10/ It’s unlikely this will lead to charges against Hicks unless there’s a lot more to this. But the article only scratches the surface of what could be revealed by Trump’s dictation of the Trump Tower statement and the discussion about the statement, which was not privileged.

11/ Trump Jr.’s lawyer, Trump, and others should not have crafted this statement together. It’s particularly odd given Trump Jr’s decision to release the emails that appear to contradict the statement shortly after.

12/ Prosecutors love when people who are under investigation reveal what they know and what they’re afraid of others knowing about. You can bet that Mueller will uncover a lot of details that aren’t in the @nytimes article. Trump and his son put themselves in a tough spot. /end

thebewilderness · 01/02/2018 07:40

If Nunes colluded with the White House, which we are perfectly aware he did back in Spring 2017 when he made his midnight visits to look at classified material, he loses his congressional immunity.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 01/02/2018 07:40

Petrol-esque stuff (natural gas)!

www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/editorials/2018/01/30/russian-gas-just-say-nyet/xBgrxEJMtTNwCaEn6i2PWM/story.html

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 01/02/2018 07:43

Is he relying on pardons? Republicans being in power through whatever means possible so that they'll never be held to account?

He's lasted (and in fact continued to violate his recusal) despite his pantomime last year so either he's powered by the knowledge he'll be fine or by the fear that whatever comes out would be worse than any consequences he'll face for his blatant interfering. Or maybe both! (or neither, or other things altogether)

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 01/02/2018 07:46

Mike Scarcella‏Verified account
@MikeScarcella
New: 'Due to the status of the Special Counsel's investigation, the parties do not believe that this matter is ready to be scheduled for a sentencing hearing at this time." #Flynn drive.google.com/file/d/15Jk8UKTqDKMczS-HB5xQxwv5MWmhbF1g/view

And then the comments below, from unverified people:

Adele Abrams
@safetylawyer1
Replying to @MikeScarcella
As someone who has been a criminal defense attorney in federal court, with an FBI informant client ... I know what this means. It ain't good for Trump

Emerson Bryant
@emersonhbryant
Care to elaborate? I thought they had to tell the FBI everything before getting a plea deal

Ray Salva
@RaySalva
It means, among other things that Flynn is available to refute future testimony. Know the identity of anyone who we know for sure has yet to offer testimony?

The one in which Trump orders his staff to fire Mueller, and they give him the finger
Fekko · 01/02/2018 07:47

This is getting rather good. I’m lookjng forward to the film version...

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 01/02/2018 07:48

Michael Li‏Verified account
@mcpli
PA senate president pro tem Scarnati tells Pennsylvania Supreme Court that it usurped legislative authority in ordering redraw of congressional map and that, therefore, he is not going cooperate with court order. #fairmaps www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legal-work/LWV_v_PA_Scarnati-Response-to-01.26.18-Order.pdf

[can see other embedded documents here: twitter.com/mcpli/status/958787095354540033 ]

Leah McElrath
@leahmcelrath
Once again, Republicans show they have contempt for the rule of law:

thebewilderness · 01/02/2018 07:54

I have wondered for some time now if Nunes wasn't trying to cover up and distract from his own crimes during the campaign rather than covering for Trump.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 01/02/2018 08:06

He was part of the transition team himself - that’s why he was supposed to be recused. It’s not unlikely that he’s in the shit too

lionheart · 01/02/2018 08:06

Going back but only a day or two and because sneaky things should be noted. Especially when they involve Holocaust denial.

thinkprogress.org/matt-gaetz-charles-johnson-trump-state-of-the-union-46502b4cee6f/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5a72c9099ebbef00074f9688&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

lionheart · 01/02/2018 08:09

Those emails, those texts. Smile

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 01/02/2018 08:31

With the disclaimer that’s mike farb could be anybody and I don’t have the technological understanding to know if what they’re writing stacks up, he had a thread on nunes quite recently (and one awhile back about how nunes election results looked assisted)

MikeFarb
MikeFarb
@mikefarb1
#unhackthevote

Devin Nunes

A Candidate

His Candidate Website

A Trojan Horse

The Story of how Devin Nunes and other GOP may have been compromised!!

Thread

mobile.twitter.com/mikefarb1/status/957676207570587648

[again, he could be mensch-esque so parse how you see fit]

lionheart · 01/02/2018 09:11

Adam Schiff‏Verified account
@RepAdamSchiff
Following Following @RepAdamSchiff

The decision by Nunes to employ an obscure rule to release classified information for partisan political purposes crossed a dangerous line, and increases the risk of a constitutional crisis and another Saturday Night Massacre.

My oped on Washington Post:

www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/rep-nuness-memo-crosses-a-dangerous-line/2018/01/31/cbdabedc-0696-11e8-b48c-b07fea957bd5_story.html?utm_term=.fbd7f0dc57d2

PerkingFaintly · 01/02/2018 10:54

I've passed the Mike Farb thread by a techie friend, who's had a rummage in the various sites' gubbins and says the compromised Devin Nunes site at .net looks to him like an amateurish site done on the cheap or thrown up in a hurry - typical of a developer or demo piece.

The current Nunes site at .com appears to be professionally hosted and maintained, and the person who did the redirect clearly had authority on both sites.

His opinion is that when the first infection of the old .net site was reported, the company managing Nunes sites simply disconnected things by the quickest, laziest method and didn't bother cleaning up the old site behind them. (I have no difficulty in believing this: plumbers and electricians do the same!)

And now the old Nunes .net site is an abandoned website with no maintenance, being infected with new malware by any bot that finds it while crawling the web. Eg that Russian travel agent page which is clearly not intended to fool anyone they are on a legit Devin Nunes site. Friend says he sees this with hundreds of infected abandoned sites.

I liked Mike Farb's stuff on statistical analysis of voting patterns (tho caveat, my stats aren't good enough to spot if he's gone astray in his thinking).

But I wish he'd stick to that. He seems to be out of his depth on the web techie stuff, and not have the experience to understand whether what he's seeing is significant.

OP posts:
GingerIvy · 01/02/2018 11:03

Richard W. Painter

@RWPUSA
6h6 hours ago
Bad news for Hope Hicks. She had better come clean fast.

NYT: Corallo will tell special counsel about alleged Hope Hicks vow that emails 'will never get out' @CNNPolitics cnn.it/2rYSo82

Lweji · 01/02/2018 11:03

Another aspect to despair of GOP

"REPUBLICANS [Lamar Smith and Andy Biggs] ON THE House Science Committee are accusing Linda Birnbaum, director of the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, of lobbying."
...
"Birnbaum’s editorial, which the journal PLOS Biology published in December, addressed the gaps in the regulation of toxic chemicals.”
"Birnbaum called for more research on the risks posed by chemicals and, in the sentence that the representatives appear to consider lobbying, noted that “closing the gap between evidence and policy will require that engaged citizens — both scientists and non-scientists — work to ensure that our government officials pass health-protective policies based on the best available scientific evidence.”

"Nevertheless, Biggs and Smith, who have both received money from Koch Industries, Exxon Mobil, and other companies that have a financial interest in limiting research on the environmental effects of chemicals, noted that their “committee suspects this activity may be a violation of the anti-lobbying act.”"

theintercept.com/2018/01/22/linda-birnbaum-niehs-house-science-committee/

And they will feel that they can get away with it.

[grr]

Lweji · 01/02/2018 11:11

BTW, a friend currently living in the US (NY) posted on FB that he's fed up of all the dissecting of Trump and the SOTU speech.
He's black, and from an African country, so immigrant in the US.

I suspect many people are reaching saturation, even people who have reasons to be concerned and are worried about the politics.

Will the media pounding benefit Trump?
It looks like the Dems need a strategy to keep the fight going.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 01/02/2018 11:34

Thanks perking that's really helpful! I was in two minds as to whether to post the thread as I couldn't be sure of how true its assertions were but thought I'd do anyway with heavy disclaimers.

lweji I've avoided most of the SOTU dissection because other than listening out for more dog whistles, what is there for him to say that 1) he'll feel bound by or 2) that is true? I read very little analysis of it because it seemed a bit futile and it was irritating anticipating (and then seeing) headlines proclaiming him to have done OK for reading of a teleprompter. I'm with your friend on that one.

However, I'm still very much mired in other stuff Trump so that's where the comparison falls apart Grin

GingerIvy · 01/02/2018 11:54

Ted Lieu

Verified account

@tedlieu
7h7 hours ago
More Ted Lieu Retweeted Nate Silver
My prediction: When Dem memo gets released or reporters get the truth, the public will know Devin Nunes & the White House misled the American people. Just like the stunt Nunes pulled last year. Nunes will then have to recuse himself from his current recusal. Like recusal squared.

PerkingFaintly · 01/02/2018 12:00

I really like that you post stuff, Pain! And that you add disclaimers!

If we only ever post material we know in advance is 100% (and how would we know that?), we'll easily fall victim to the fallacy of "there is no truth so we can never say anything".

A condition the disruptivists are trying to create anyway...

Similarly, I don't mind having the Seth Abramson stuff on the thread. He might be right much of the time. He might be a screaming loon. He might be right 50% of the time. If there's no reason to think he's deliberately misdirecting (unlike Mensch), and it doesn't take over and start creating a cult of True Believers, then I'm fine with having that and other diverse stuff as part of the mix.

OP posts:
GingerIvy · 01/02/2018 12:19

yes, I follow Seth Abramson, but I am not sure how accurate he is,so I wait for confirmation from other sources. Same with Mike Farb.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 01/02/2018 12:29

That’ll go nicely with the chip on my shoulder Grin