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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

The one in which Trump orders his staff to fire Mueller, and they give him the finger

986 replies

PerkingFaintly · 26/01/2018 12:14

Apparently this has already happened, back in July 2017. Shock

But the orange one try again...

Trump Ordered Mueller Fired, but Backed Off When White House Counsel Threatened to Quit
www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/us/politics/trump-mueller-special-counsel-russia.html

Coverage by Maddow: twitter.com/maddow?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3142761-All-Trump-sees-is-green-All-we-see-is-a-traitorous-orange-menace-Who-is-right-Place-bets-now-Trump-continued?pg=1

OP posts:
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25
cozietoesie · 31/01/2018 05:36

Two people who, from their faces, weren't overly happy with the address. Mt Mcconnell and - interestingly - SecDef.

OuaisMaisBon · 31/01/2018 05:58

So, this kind of reaction to SOTUS is everywhere I look - am I looking in the wrong places? If not, how can this feeling be harnessed to stop Trump (my perennial question)?

Bradley Whitford
‏Verified account @WhitfordBradley
3h3 hours ago

I love getting lectured about patriotism and morality by draft dodging uninformed racist reality show stars who collude with our enemies, obstruct Justice, undermine our institutions and pay hush money to porn stars. Don’t you?

(OK, this is from a fake political adviser in a fake WH, but I prefer him to the current incumbents!)

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 31/01/2018 06:05

Mueller Seeks Interview With Ex-Spokesman for Trump’s Legal Team

Mark Corallo resigned from position after revelation that president’s son arranged meeting with Russian lawyer

www.wsj.com/amp/articles/mueller-seeks-interview-with-ex-spokesman-for-trumps-legal-team-1517363052?__twitter_impression=true

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 31/01/2018 06:08

CSPAN
@cspan
CLIP: As President Trump exits the House Chamber, @RepJeffDuncan asks him to #ReleaseTheMemo.

#SOTU #SOTU2018

mobile.twitter.com/cspan/status/958557375002218496/video/1

Jonathan Lemire
@JonLemire
Trump caught on hot mic saying "Don't worry, 100%" when urged to Release the Memo

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 31/01/2018 06:13

Justice Dept. officials appealed to White House to halt release of memo alleging FBI abuses related to author of Trump dossier

www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/politics/justice-dept-officials-appealed-to-white-house-to-halt-release-of-memo-alleging-fbi-abuses-related-to-author-of-trump-dossier/2018/01/30/32f9d15a-060d-11e8-ae28-e370b74ea9a7_story.html?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_nunesmemo-745pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.d38b842367ef&__twitter_impression=true

Top Justice Department officials made a last-ditch plea Monday to White House Chief of Staff John F. Kelly about the dangers of publicly releasing a memo alleging abuses by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, according to people briefed on the meeting.

Shortly before the House Intelligence Committee voted to make the document public, Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein warned Kelly that the four-page memo prepared by House Republicans could jeopardize classified information and implored the president to reconsider his support for making it public, those people said. Rosenstein was joined in the meeting at the White House by FBI Director Christopher A. Wray.

Rosenstein, who is supervising special counsel Robert S. Mueller III's investigation into Russia's interference in the 2016 election, said the Department of Justice was not convinced the memo accurately describes its investigative practices. He said making the document public could set a dangerous precedent, according to a person familiar with the discussion.

While Wray also expressed opposition to the memo's release, Rosenstein did much of the talking, according to a senior U.S. government official. Attorney General Jeff Sessions was not present at the meeting.

In response, Kelly told Rosenstein and Wray that the president was still inclined to release the memo but the White House would go through a review led by the National Security Council and the White House Counsel's Office, a senior administration official said. That review is expected to take at least several days, a senior White House official said.

lalalalyra · 31/01/2018 06:20

It was just hideous.

Was anyone else seriously uncomfortable about the adopted baby story? When he was going on about god speaking to the man to help I thought it was going to be "so he got her to rehab" or something. Not "so and and his wife now have her baby".

I think the Trump response to Joe Kennedy's response can already be predicted, and whoever decided to have Kennedy speak in front of a damaged car in a workshop should have thought that through a bit more.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 31/01/2018 06:21

Senate Dems are plotting aggressive tactics to force Republicans to consider legislation to shield Mueller from presidential interference, could tie a bill to the government funding legislation that must be considered by Feb. 8, The Daily Beast reports.

<a class="break-all" href="https://amp.thedailybeast.com/senate-dems-plot-moonshot-attempts-to-save-robert-mueller-from-trump#click=t.co/irB1kqmBVC" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">amp.thedailybeast.com/senate-dems-plot-moonshot-attempts-to-save-robert-mueller-from-trump#click=t.co/irB1kqmBVC

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 31/01/2018 06:23

DOJ’s inspector general has been focused on why Andrew McCabe appeared not to act for about 3 weeks on a request to examine a batch of Clinton-related emails found in the latter stages of the 2016 election, people familiar with the matter tell WaPo.

wapo.st/2DLiZXH

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 31/01/2018 06:35

Renato Mariotti
@renato_mariotti
THREAD: Why are Trump’s lawyers trying to resist an interview of Trump? (Short answer: To gain leverage in negotiations with Mueller.)

1/ Today @CNN confirmed that Trump’s lawyers are fighting an interview of Trump by Mueller. Fighting wouldn’t work in the end, but it would delay the interview and could cause Mueller’s team to tip more of their hands than they would otherwise.

amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/01/30/politics/donald-trump-attorneys/index.html?__twitter_impression=true

2/ That’s because Mueller would have to show that Trump’s interview would reveal important information that he could not obtain from another source. Mueller could easily make that showing, because only Trump knows what his thought process was when he fired Comey, for example.

3/ But if Mueller had to explain why he needed to interview Trump, that would tip his hand slightly. It would also delay the interview and would waste time and resources. Most likely, they hope to use this as a bargaining chip when negotiating with Mueller.

4/ While they won’t get much in exchange for not fighting, they might get a time limit on the interview or some limitation on possible topics. Given how high the stakes are, this is a savvy move by the Trump legal team. /end

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 31/01/2018 06:43

Yashar Ali 🐘
@yashar
Interesting

  1. Signed statement from Stormy sent by Michael Cohen when story first surfaced
  1. BuzzFeed obtained this signed statement today. We don't know who sent it in.
  1. Stormy's autograph.

Look at the difference. The BuzzFeed obtained one looks very different.

mobile.twitter.com/yashar/status/958471652135882753

Sahil Kapur
@sahilkapur
Stormy Daniels basically confirms on Kimmel’s show that this statement denying her Trump affair is fake — she says the signature isn’t hers.

“I do not know where it came from.”

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 31/01/2018 06:52

Will Ripley
@willripleyCNN
#breaking #exclusive Diplomatic sources tell @CNN North Korea is planning to show off dozens of long-range missiles next week to “scare the hell out of the Americans.” edition-m.cnn.com/2018/01/31/asia/north-korea-missile-display-intl/index.html

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 31/01/2018 07:08

From yesterday:

Manu Raju
@mkraju
Steve Bannon’s appearance before House Intel tomorrow has been scrapped, amid a dispute with the panel over whether he could answer questions after the campaign season. His testimony is expected to be rescheduled, we are told

Where House Intel goes from here on Russia probe is an open question. Amid bitter dispute over Nunes memo, several key witnesses - Lewandowski, Hicks, Bannon - have yet to be rescheduled. And others not on books yet

OuaisMaisBon · 31/01/2018 07:29

I can't get behind the Washington Post paywall, but am aghast at the bastards going back to "but her emails" yet a-bloody-gain. It's ridiculous and far beyond a joke. I seem to be in a state of stasis, waiting for a knight in shining armour to come along and rescue us all from this disaster. Ain't gonna happen, is it?

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 31/01/2018 07:29

Yascha Mounk
@Yascha_Mounk
Trump's call to empower politicians to remove federal employees who violate the public trust is deeply sinister. If actually implemented, it could form the core of a huge purge of independent-minded public servants.

Donald Trump Just Asked Congress to End the Rule of Law

This should be the biggest headline of the speech.

amp.slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/01/donald-trump-just-asked-congress-to-end-the-rule-of-law.html?via=recirc_recent&__twitter_impression=true

But Trump’s speech was also deeply dangerous for an even more important reason: Under the cover of his soothing rhetoric about unity and bipartisanship, Trump called on Congress to give him unprecedented and unquestionably antidemocratic powers: “Tonight,” he said, “I call on the congress to empower every Cabinet secretary with the authority to reward good workers—and to remove federal employees who undermine the public trust or fail the American people.”
By design, it is easy to overlook the true significance of the second half of that phrase. But dwell on it for a moment, and imagine what this would actually look like in practice. Under Trump’s proposal, any Cabinet secretary could decide that, say, a law enforcement official investigating the president had “undermined the public trust” or “failed the American people”—and fire him on the spot. In other words, Trump is calling for an end to any semblance of independence for the IRS, the FBI, the Department of Justice, or any other federal agency.

Max Fisher
@Max_Fisher
I was also really struck by this line from Trump’s speech asking for special powers to summarily dismiss any federal employee

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 31/01/2018 07:38

G. Willow Wilson
@GWillowWilson
It may be time to start thinking about how we can effectively push back against authoritarianism once the last of the checks and balances have fallen.

It's a mistake to think a dictatorship feels intrinsically different on a day-to-day basis than a democracy does. I've lived in one dictatorship and visited several others--there are still movies and work and school and shopping and memes and holidays.

The difference is the steady disappearance of dissent from the public sphere. Anti-regime bloggers disappear. Dissident political parties are declared "illegal." Certain books vanish from the libraries.

The press picks a side. The military picks a side. The judiciary picks a side. This part should already feel familiar.

The genius of a true, functioning dictatorship is the way it carefully titrates justice. Once in awhile it will allow a sound judicial decision or critical op-ed to bubble up. Rational discourse is never entirely absent. There is plausible deniability.

People still have rights, in theory. The right to vote, to serve on a jury, etc. The difference is that they begin to fear exercising those rights. Voting in an election will get your name put on "a list."

So if you're waiting for the grand moment when the scales tip and we are no longer a functioning democracy, you needn't bother. It'll be much more subtle than that. It'll be more of the president ignoring laws passed by congress. It'll be more demonizing of the press.

Until one day we wake up and discover the regime has decided to postpone the 2020 elections until its lawyers are finished investigating something or other. Or until it can 'ensure' that the voting process is 'fair.'

A sizable proportion of the citizenry will support the postponement. Yes, absolutely, we must postpone elections. The opposition is corrupt! Our leader is just trying to protect us! A dictator is never without supporters.

And hey, if we pull ourselves back from the brink and the midterms go ahead and the 2020 election is free and transparent and on time, you are cordially invited to point at me and laugh. Honestly. No one will be happier to be wrong than me. Fave this thread. I will laugh with you

Since people are panicking prematurely in my mentions: I'm not suggesting that this chain of events WILL happen. I'm saying that if we were to slide into authoritarianism, this is how it would look. Bc many USians seem to think autocracy looks like something off the Syfy channel.

(I actually think we are done a massive disservice by most western dystopian fiction for this reason. It lies about the way real dystopias actually look and feel.)

Lweji · 31/01/2018 07:41

Is it normal for families of victims etc to be, erm, showcased like this? It seems a bit exploitative tbh

If I was a relative I'd have begged to be there.

lionheart · 31/01/2018 08:09

'The bar has been lowered so much, people get overly excited when he keeps to the script.'

www.independent.co.uk/voices/donald-trump-state-of-the-union-address-melania-teleprompter-a8186496.html

Natsku · 31/01/2018 08:31

That G. Willow Wilson tweet thread is chilling, when I think about it I can see it happening like that, the slow gentle slip into dictatorship when most don't realise until it's too late. It's possible I think.

Lweji · 31/01/2018 08:43

Yes, it's chilling. And everything we've been saying since before the election. It's sad that we were not wrong.

No single action will be seen as meriting proper civil action. Until it's too late.

And still, dictators always have substantial support. Some people just seem to find democracy too confusing and unstable.

TheClaws · 31/01/2018 10:21

As an outsider looking in, I feel very sorry for the United States that was. It can be that way again, I know it.

Lweji · 31/01/2018 10:36

I'm not sure the US were that great to start with. It's more that they thought they were. There have always been chilling things, from segregation to the death penalty. There are some good things, but for all the democracy flag waving, there have always been many issues with how it works in practice, IMO.

GingerIvy · 31/01/2018 11:42

Lweji I have to agree with that. After living most of my life in the US, my political views changed drastically not long after moving to the UK. I see things quite differently.

GingerIvy · 31/01/2018 11:51

Rebecca Ballhaus

Verified account

@rebeccaballhaus
10h10 hours ago
New: Mueller is seeking an interview with Mark Corallo, the former spokesman for Trump's legal team who quit after privately expressing frustration over the White House's response to reports about Don Jr./Trump Tower meeting.
www.wsj.com/articles/mueller-seeks-interview-with-ex-spokesman-for-trumps-legal-team-1517363052
___
Greg Sargent

Verified account

@ThePlumLineGS
7m7 minutes ago
More Greg Sargent Retweeted Rebecca Ballhaus
Mueller wants to talk to Mark Carollo, WSJ reports.

Corallo reportedly thought the statement lying about Trump Tower meeting might be obstruction.

Reminder: @RepAdamSchiff told me he wanted House Intel to interview Corallo, but Nunes hasn't allowed it: