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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

The one in which Trump orders his staff to fire Mueller, and they give him the finger

986 replies

PerkingFaintly · 26/01/2018 12:14

Apparently this has already happened, back in July 2017. Shock

But the orange one try again...

Trump Ordered Mueller Fired, but Backed Off When White House Counsel Threatened to Quit
www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/us/politics/trump-mueller-special-counsel-russia.html

Coverage by Maddow: twitter.com/maddow?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3142761-All-Trump-sees-is-green-All-we-see-is-a-traitorous-orange-menace-Who-is-right-Place-bets-now-Trump-continued?pg=1

OP posts:
Thread gallery
25
GingerIvy · 31/01/2018 11:54

Some interesting reading on Nunes.....

Winford

@ToestringRd
3m3 minutes ago
More Winford Retweeted Winford
Devin Nunes threads

Part One:
twitter.com/ToestringRd/status/958421960194691072
Part Two:
twitter.com/ToestringRd/status/958515452942143488

Correction: Kitty Dukakis was married to Jason Chaffetz' father, but is not his mother.

Winford added,
Winford

GingerIvy · 31/01/2018 11:55

Mike Levine

Verified account

@MLevineReports
6m6 minutes ago
LI’L SCOOP: Justice Department gives special counsel internal docs on proposed Sessions resignation, and much more, source says abcnews.go.com/US/doj-special-counsel-internal-docs-thwarted-sessions-resignation/story?id=52721241

GingerIvy · 31/01/2018 11:57

Holly Figueroa O'Reilly

Verified account

@AynRandPaulRyan
8m8 minutes ago
Unbelievable.

Trump, caught on a hot mic, when @RepJeffDuncan asked him to "release the memo", says, "Oh yeah. Don't worry. 100%."

But UNITY! And BIPARTISANSHIP! amirite?
#WednesdayWisdom
pic.twitter.com/oZVz6adBq3

PerkingFaintly · 31/01/2018 12:01

Oh god yes, people promoting the US's vision of itself is a "fake it till you make it" thing.

If you tell people they're better than this, they might actually try to be.

On the other hand, they might just sit back and assume some sort of moral superiority to the rest of the world while doing sweet FA to live up to it.

OP posts:
PerkingFaintly · 31/01/2018 12:45

GingerIvy, that's interesting that your views changed so drastically after leaving the US.

Would you up for saying more about what changed, and why?

OP posts:
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 31/01/2018 14:25

"Pull yourself up by the bootstraps" isn't too far removed from the mentality behind workhouses - if you're poor, it's obviously because it's a personal failing and not because the system is stacked against you.

I think most countries portray their histories and role in current events differently to its residents than is perceived by the wider world. We've got romanticised views of Blighty and her colonies, ruling the world etc but a lot of people don't see what damage was inflicted. And although we have more easy access to different perspectives thanks to the internet, you still have to seek it out and the vast narratives and stories we hear about ourselves are from people around us, who are also steeped in the same filtered information. (Not that I'm speaking for Ginger - am fascinated by your experiences and would love to hear more if you chose to share!)

Lweji · 31/01/2018 14:53

For those of us who haven't watched and still don't want to watch the State of the disUnion slurred Speech, here's the abridged and commented on version:

Enjoy!

PerkingFaintly · 31/01/2018 15:02

Pain that's exactly why I used to like living in different countries round the world. Gives you a completely different perspective of them and of your home country.

(Which I had to bit of already from family, but it's nothing like actually being there.)

OP posts:
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 31/01/2018 15:43

Although I have a relative who moved to Dubai and said she thought the fact that the newspapers were censored and very little bad news was ever published was a positive because people weren't demoralised all the time and everyone knew what was going on through word of mouth anyway so it was all fine. We've never managed to see eye to eye on that one.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 31/01/2018 15:43

Moved to Dubai from London.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 31/01/2018 15:58

Alexandra Erin
‏***@alexandraerin*
There are a pair of recent moves, from the State Department and the Treasury Department, which suggest that in year two of Trump's reign, the regime is being a lot less circumspect about being in Putin's pocket, with less ego-clashing feud and less smoke-and-mirrors resistance.

Now, you might recall that back in 2017, Congress passed laws calling for tough new sanctions to punish Russia for its election interference. There was a lot of speculation about whether Trump would sign this act, but he finally did, grudgingly and complaining the whole time.

In the United States system of government, the theory is that Congress passes the law, and the executive branch executes them, hence the term. Trump as chief executive is the chief one responsible for carrying out laws passed by Congress.

So guess where this is going.

Monday, January 29th, was the deadline for the executive branch to impose the sanctions, as prescribed in the bill that Donald Trump personally signed into canon as the law of the land.

It came and it went.

The law called for the Treasury Department to help guide the sanctions by producing an investigative report of oligarchs and businesses linked to Putin.

Serious, lifetime-career experts at the Treasury Department prepared that report, which was then thrown out and replaced with a copy of the Russian Forbes 100 list plus a few public Putin associates and a disclaimer that it's not a list of people who should face sanctions.

And Rex Tillerson, secretary of state and obvious Yosemite Sam pseudonym, told Congress that they haven't imposed actual sanctions because the threat of sanctions is proving an effective deterrent. Slap on the wrist, everybody learned a valuable lesson. No actual penalty.

The actual implementation strategy here is to let everyone else know that doing "significant transactions" with certain Russia-linked entities may result in penalties for the other party. But it's entirely discretionary. No actual rules per se.

Team America: World Secret Police.

This gives the Trump regime a valuable tool for looking tough (Trump's favorite way to look), a free hand for Putin, and a way to arbitrarily impose sanctions on countries or other entities that Trump or Putin want to weaken.

With nothing actually in writing about what transactions get penalized, we could easily see a situation where a group that does significant business with the Ukraine and also had an incidental transaction in Russia gets hit with sanctions for violating the unwritten rules.

Or anybody backing dissidents and opposition politicians in Russia. The sub-basement floor is the limit with these guys.

I don't think we are quite at "Treasury and State Department overtly help Putin crush his enemies" territory yet. Nope. But one year and change in to Trump's rule, and we are at "Treasury and State Department overtly shield Putin and his cronies from consequences" territory.

And while it's not a surprising shift, it is a marked shift from where they were last year, and the main thing that has changed is what year it is. Time makes Trump normal. The passage of the year changed his dislike of the sanctions from an outrage to the way things are.

And with Trump's feet-dragging opposition to the sanctions accepted as the new normal, his executive branch failing to execute them becomes a natural progression of time rather than a startling departure from all norms of governance and the rule of law.

So you've really got to ask yourself, what would the start of a year 3 of Trump look like? How far would he be able to go after his next calendar reset? How far can he push things between now and then?

Cathy R 🇨🇦‏
@CathyMaiRu
Replying to @alexandraerin
So now what? No further actions!? What can be done?

Alexandra Erin
‏***@alexandraerin*
Talk about it. Spread awareness of it. Make sure everybody you know knows that it's happening. Post it on your Facebook. Put it in an email forward to your uncle. The right does these things, and it shapes the way people think about politics, and vote.

Talk is not the only action required, but talk is an action that is required. There is a national discourse. We have to be shaping it.

Believe it or not, talking about the regime's corruption is doing something. Talking about the resurgence of overt Nazism and white nationalism is doing something. Being willing to talk about these things, to label them as they are rather than accepting them as normal, helps.

We could be calling Congress to light a fire under them to demand the executive branch actually execute these things, to write newer, more specific, and tougher sanction laws, but to be honest: the public engagement and awareness aren't there yet to get the critical mass needed.

So step one is: talk about it. Talk to people about it. Get people talking about it. The executive branch is flouting the rule of law, Trump is ignoring a law he himself signed into existence.

The right has a hundred talking points about why Russian interference doesn't exist or doesn't matter or helped Clinton or whatever. But none of that addresses the fact that Trump signed this law. He made it the law of the land. And he's ignoring it.

Now, here's a very simple thing you can do. Does your local paper print letters to the editor? Write one, expressing your opinion that Trump is undermining Congress and the rule of law by ignoring the Russian sanction deadlines. Reference a recent article they published.

Chances are the demographic who reads letters to the editor may be a different demographic than you normally talk to or interact with.

If you are vulnerable and/or have a distinctive name, be cautious, as newspapers usually publish the real names and possibly home towns of the people whose letters they print.

Although they don't necessarily have rigorous ID checking if you use a pseudonym.

Just, you know, make it a name and not glamthrower69420.

Anyway, that's my morning analysis. Off to read the State of the Union. If you get anything from my work on here, feel free to tip in to keep it going.

www.paypal.me/alexandraerin

lionheart · 31/01/2018 16:34

Asha Rangappa

Verified account

@AshaRangappa_
15m15 minutes ago

Some background on the lawyer who drafted the Nunes memo, Kash Patel: He got benchslapped with an "order of ineptitude" by a federal judge in Houston in February 2016 for wasting taxpayer money and being "one more nonessential employee from Washington"

www.abajournal.com/news/article/federal_judge_issues_order_on_ineptitude_in_prosecutor_benchslap/

And:

'The Dubious Legal Claim Behind #ReleaseTheMemo'

lawfareblog.com/dubious-legal-claim-behind-releasethememo

lionheart · 31/01/2018 16:36

'FBI Director Christopher Wray told the White House he opposes release of a classified Republican memo alleging bias at the FBI and Justice Department because it contains inaccurate information and paints a false narrative, according to a person familiar with the matter.'

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-31/trump-says-100-percent-after-he-s-asked-to-release-gop-memo

thebewilderness · 31/01/2018 16:48

Shorter Trump SOTU: Thanks, Obama!

lionheart · 31/01/2018 16:54

I thought this was a metaphor, but no.

'A train carrying members of Congress to their legislative retreat in West Virginia, hit a truck Wednesday, multiple sources told CNN.'

edition.cnn.com/2018/01/31/politics/congress-train-accident/index.html

PerkingFaintly · 31/01/2018 17:02

That crash has just happened? Hope to heaven it's not too serious.

OP posts:
lionheart · 31/01/2018 17:07

More from the report:

Rep. John Faso, a New York Republican, who was on the train that crashed, said he was able to see the truck that hit the train, and that he was told that injuries were expected from people in the truck, not train.
"There was (what) looks like a tractor trailer carrying trash that was hit by the train," Faso, who said he was in the third car of the train, told CNN.
"I think everyone on the train is OK," Faso said. "I don't know that for sure, it's a long train. But most of the concern is for the people outside."
One GOP source was unsure how many members of Congress were on the train or how many people were injured, but said there were injuries.
That source said members "hit the deck."
Republican members of Congress were on their way for a retreat at The Greenbrier in White Sulphur Springs, West Virginia starting Wednesday and ending Friday. Vice President Mike Pence, who was not on the train, is scheduled to speak to members later Wednesday and President Donald Trump is scheduled to address the event tomorrow.
The train left from Union Station in Washington earlier Wednesday.

PerkingFaintly · 31/01/2018 17:11

Thanks for that. Numbers of potential serious casualties much more limited if it's that way round, thank goodness. Though obviously that's no consolation for those injured outside.

OP posts:
lionheart · 31/01/2018 17:13

Not good for the people in the truck (one person has died, according to the reports and two injured) but the people on the train okay.

Charlottesville though.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 31/01/2018 17:21

Charlottesville?

Trey Gowdy
@TGowdySC
There is a time to come and a time to go. This is the right time, for me, to leave politics and return to the justice system. Full statement here →

The one in which Trump orders his staff to fire Mueller, and they give him the finger
lionheart · 31/01/2018 17:29

Yep. And a garbage truck.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 31/01/2018 17:36

Ah, just registered that it happened in Charlottesville. Missed that the first time Blush

Looking more likely that the White House had a hand in creating the memo

Manu Raju
@mkraju
Dem. Rep Quigley said he asked Nunes at Monday meeting if WH had been involved in the preparation of the memo. “He said ‘not to my knowledge.’ I asked did your staff? And he became quite agitated and said ‘I’m not answering that,’” Quigley told @brikeilarcnn

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 31/01/2018 17:38

Spencer Ackerman
@attackerman
FBI just now, re the HPSCI memo: "We have grave concerns about material omissions of fact that fundamentally impact the memo’s accuracy."

lionheart · 31/01/2018 17:50

SHS.

“She seems to kind of embody the bitterness that belongs in the Democrat party right now.”

www.thecut.com/2018/01/sarah-huckabee-sanders-tells-nancy-pelosi-to-smile-more.html?utm_campaign=nym&utm_source=tw&utm_medium=s1

lionheart · 31/01/2018 18:03

Eric Holder

Verified account

@EricHolder
19m19 minutes ago

People must understand what is at stake by release of the bogus, contrived Nunes memo. It uses normally protected material and puts at risk our intell capabilities in order to derail a legitimate criminal investigation. This is unheard of- it is dangerous and it is irresponsible.

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