Argument between DH and DF - I'm stuck in the middle!

[lirpaloof]

A few months ago my dad got into a row with DH at our house (I was out). DH told my dad to leave and he wasn't welcome back until he apologised. My dad lives a long way away so only visits twice a year and would usually stay with us.

The row was due to my dad challenging an aspect of DH's behaviour which DH thinks is fine, my dad does not, and I find annoying but have just accepted over the years (think amount of time spent on hobbies, along those lines). DH raised the subject initially, things got heated, my dad tried to end the discussion in a "let's agree to disagree" way several times but DH wouldn't let it go.

DH was stressed at the time so admits he probably over reacted and my dad has form for saying what he thinks even if it's not great timing. My dad was really shaken up about how everything got so out of hand but won't apologise as he still holds the same view about DH's behaviour.

I wanted to stay out of it but DH says he needed to know which 'side' I'm on. I said that the argument was between him and my dad, it's just a matter of differing opinions and there is no right or wrong. It caused a row between us and I reluctantly ended up telling DH that I agreed with him just to keep the peace. I don't see my dad that often so it just seemed easier.

Fast forward a few months and my dad is coming to visit but staying at a hotel. It's brought up the whole argument again and DH is saying that he would be justified in thinking I'm siding with my dad if I see him and that I'm an unsupportive wife. He's not actually said that's what he thinks, just that he would have grounds to, implying that I should be grateful he doesn't think that way. He said if any of his family members treated me as my dad had treated him he would demand an apology from them and go NC if they refused.

AIBU to try to remain neutral and continue seeing my dad? Is DH BU in forcing me to take sides?

lottiegarbanzo - yes I do tend to keep quiet about a lot of things just to keep the peace. I am quite a laid back person and I suppose I just go along with things for an easy life, especially if I don't consider it a big deal in the greater scheme of things. However, once in a while I will dig my heels in about something, in this case seeing my dad, and I suppose it happens so rarely that DH isn't used to it.

I think your DH needs to stop creating further drama and get on with a bit of DIY at home.

Did your DHs hobby have as much importance in his life before you married him? If this is the case then I think your DH is in the right to be pissed off with your DF, and is owed an apology for being tackled on something that is no one else business in his own home. Since you don't think your DF is going to apologise then I think at the very least you need to have a word with your DF to make it very clear that this sort of thing can not happen again, then your DH should let the whole thing go unless there is a repeat incident.

If the time he is dedicating to his hobby is increasing then your DF mentioning it is probably out of concern for you, and it is up to you whether or not you like having your DF fight your battles for you.

Your husband sounds like a cunt

You said in your first post that your DH raised this first with your DF.

It feels an awful lot like he was aware that your DF didn't approve of his behaviour and he wanted to put his point of view across so that your DF would feel obliged to validate it. He then became angry when your DF wouldn't do that.

Your DF probably should have refused to comment but he didn't. Other than that, he seems to have behaved perfectly reasonably.

Your DH, on the other hand, raised a subject he know they were both tense about, triggering an argument and is now using that as an excuse to remove your DF from your life.

It seems like, one way or another, he will only tolerate people if they validate his views. Does this describe him? If so, you need to think very carefully about the dynamics of your relationship.

Read about coercive control and reflect on your relationship in that context. It is very common for the abusive partner to create situations to justify alienating someone from friends and family by making them choose or making them feel disloyal if they try to keep those people in their lives.

In a healthy relationship, your DH would accept that your relationship with your DF is important to you and support you still seeing him, even if he wasn't willing to play host to him in his own home. The fact that he is trying to make you go non-contact is a huge red flag.

Then what I said above applies, I think. Your DH needs to recognise that 'going along with things' is not the same as agreeing or being happy about them. I really think you need to have that conversation - and that it might be quite eye-opening for him!

Being laid back about stuff that's no big deal is one thing. Actively disadvantaging yourself and putting your needs behind your DH's wants to avoid him being arsey is quite another.

I don't get how your DH can expect you to agree he is 'right' do to work on his friend's house instead of yours, leaving you living in a frustratingly unsatisfactory house for four years. That's up there with turkeys voting for Christmas!

You actually agree with yuor dad though, don't you OP? Be honest.

I think they are both huge men children and should both grow the fuck up, tbh.
if it was me wild horses wouldn't keep me from seeing my dad, I can't anymore as he's dead

I do agree with my dad, just not enough to create an argument about it.

It is not your DF's place to get involved in your marriage or to challenge your DH's behaviour. If he doesn't like the way your DH does things or thinks it makes you unhappy then he should speak to you about it. DH is not a child and shouldn't be treated as such by your DF.

That said, your DH does sound like a bit of a twat. Given your DF's interfering I don't blame DH for not wanting to be around DF (unless this is literally the only time DF has interfered in your marriage). However, insisting that your pick sides and don't see your DF is awful.

So your house is falling down while your husband is helping a friend to do up their house?

What's his justification for this? Can't he see how unreasonable he is?

How does having a run-down house impact on your personality? your ability to socialise with friends at home?

I only ask because I had an ex who sounds rather like your DH. Although I was happy to help with the work that needed done, he wanted to be in control because he was 'better at building/decorating/tiling/everything' . What that actually meant was that nothing happened.

The knock-on effect on my confidence, peace of mind and friendships was insidious. I stopped inviting people over because I was embarrassed. I found the messy/unfinished surroundings stressful so my home became a place of stress rather than refuge and relaxation. It can be a subtle but effective way to isolate someone.

Eventually I started decorating myself. I bought paint, furniture, etc. I found a tiler and told my ex I was booking them to finish the bathrooms unless he had it completed by x date. I also started to see that my ex's failure to work with me to create a home showed how little respect he had for me. I ended the relationship.

An unfinished house can signify a lot about the state of a relationship and I imagine your DF knows that too.

Really good post. Quoted because I think you should read it carefully OP.

So your dad was looking out for you. Your DH is only looking out for himself.
If I was your dad I would have said it to him, because you know you agree with him. What other crap do you put up with for an easy life? How long has your dad had to watch you put your own needs aside to appease your dick of a husband?

You agree with your dad, but you're intimidated by your husband and don't have the strength to stand up to him.

You let him bully you because you don't like confrontation.

Hmm, on the face of it, your DH is BU for delivering such a childish-sounding ultimatum.

BUT I am really mindful of how many threads on here feature a MIL who can't keep her beaky nose out of a married couple's business, a DIL who is fed up with being criticised and a DH who won't back his wife up and tell his mother to butt out. In these situations, the DIL tends (rightly, in my view) to be told that her DH jolly well needs to get with the programme and remember which one he's married to.

Now that you've explained the actual situation, I can't help feeling your DF is the one who is out of order here. If you had asked him to intervene, e.g. because you had tried and failed many times to get your DH to understand how pissed off you are about the work in the house, then he might have a point. But I think, who is he to assume he knows all the circumstances, or all the previous history or discussions that might have taken place on the topic.

I do think DF should apologise to your DH. But I also think they should both apologise to each other and to you for their pathetic approach to conflict resolution. And perhaps your DH also needs to take another look about what effect it's having on you as a couple and as a household to be living in a half finished home because he can't/won't pull his finger out.

I think your DH needs to stop creating further drama and get on with a bit of DIY at home.

That.
Your DH is looking for a fight and is basically telling you you have to stop seeing your dad altogether. Who does that???

I think you have been so laid back that your DH thinks whatever he says goes. Time to be more assertive as what is important for you.
This is an issue between your DH and your dad. There is no reason why you should have to take sides or stop seeing someone so important for you.

I do agree with my dad, just not enough to create an argument about it.

Translation:

I have the kind of marriage where I'm not able to voice my own opinion, or there'll be WW3.

Your DH is abusive, your dad can see you getting increasingly well trained to take it.

:(

They sound like they need their heads knocking together.

Families don't get on and don't like each others choice of partner, hobby, lifestyle etc, but grown ups keep their opinions to themselves and realise that it's different strokes for different folks.

Unless your DH's hobbie or annoying habit is something like visiting teenage prostitutes or gambling the house away , then it really is for your DF to mind his own business.

Bloody hell, imagine if we all went around telling our in-laws exactly what we found annoying about them ?.

I also hate the phrase ' straight talker ' when it's used as an almost positive attribute. ' Straight Talking ' is normally done by arrogant, self opinionated, stubborn areseholes.

he thinks he's telling me to support him when he's right...because he is convinced he is and he couldn't understand why I didn't see it.
Maybe he also needs some lessons in accepting that not everyone has th same pov and that no he isn’t always right, even when he thinks he is.
Sorry but for me, someone who thinks like this is a twat.

Your DF suggested they agree to disagree but your DH wouldn’t let it go which is bullying. Whatever the disagreement was about there’s no right or wrong just different opinions.
Your DH sounds like a self-righteous bully. Stop taking the path of least resistance and say what you really think to your DH.

Having an argument happens.
Letting it go takes a bigger person. But here both of them want to be at the top. Male ego. Mancontrolling. Emotionally childish.

Your DH is adding to it by

1. asking you to take side, which is impossible, immature and narcissist as they are both 2 meaningful relationships in your life
2. your husband is heating up as really he wants you to give up on your relationship with your dad. (that's coercive)
3. your dad needs to hear that he has no place in judging your husband (poor choices, I would have to bit my tongue 100 times)
4. your husband has no right to control your relationships

At the time, DH was regularly helping out a friend fix things on their house. My dad's view is that DH should be improving our house first. I have got used to living in a house where everything is falling to bits

I would be really pissed off that DH was helping a friend make his house look nice while I had to put up with living in a tip.

He thinks more of his friend than you.Why are you putting up with this crap? Stop being such a doormat and tell DH to get his finger out. Your dad was right.

If you don't want to take up the argument itself you could still point out to your DH:
-Right or wrong - your dad said what he did out of love for you and is being protective of you. This is his role - and his duty and should be respected. (This love of you is something he and DH share.)

-Your dad is important to you and always will be - no matter what his views. Your DH should respect this and not make any dispute into a choosing between the two of them.

-The dispute is causing you pain and dividing you from your Dad. It is only hurting your DH's pride. A good DH would not want to cause DW this sort of distress.

They were both in the wrong. Your df should have kept his opinion to himself and your dh is way out of line especially trying to make you take sides and not see your dad.....very controlling.

And of course now your husband will never sort the house out because he won't want your dad to think he's done it because of what's happened. Win win for him isn't it? Doesn't have to shift his lazy arse, doesn't have to see your dad, and you're back in your box.