Argument between DH and DF - I'm stuck in the middle!

[lirpaloof]

A few months ago my dad got into a row with DH at our house (I was out). DH told my dad to leave and he wasn't welcome back until he apologised. My dad lives a long way away so only visits twice a year and would usually stay with us.

The row was due to my dad challenging an aspect of DH's behaviour which DH thinks is fine, my dad does not, and I find annoying but have just accepted over the years (think amount of time spent on hobbies, along those lines). DH raised the subject initially, things got heated, my dad tried to end the discussion in a "let's agree to disagree" way several times but DH wouldn't let it go.

DH was stressed at the time so admits he probably over reacted and my dad has form for saying what he thinks even if it's not great timing. My dad was really shaken up about how everything got so out of hand but won't apologise as he still holds the same view about DH's behaviour.

I wanted to stay out of it but DH says he needed to know which 'side' I'm on. I said that the argument was between him and my dad, it's just a matter of differing opinions and there is no right or wrong. It caused a row between us and I reluctantly ended up telling DH that I agreed with him just to keep the peace. I don't see my dad that often so it just seemed easier.

Fast forward a few months and my dad is coming to visit but staying at a hotel. It's brought up the whole argument again and DH is saying that he would be justified in thinking I'm siding with my dad if I see him and that I'm an unsupportive wife. He's not actually said that's what he thinks, just that he would have grounds to, implying that I should be grateful he doesn't think that way. He said if any of his family members treated me as my dad had treated him he would demand an apology from them and go NC if they refused.

AIBU to try to remain neutral and continue seeing my dad? Is DH BU in forcing me to take sides?

You are married to your DH, unless you want a divorce for DF should not be so outspoken as it causes problems. I don’t think it’s sustainable to take your dad’s side if this is about a personality trait of your DH than you have known about and chosen to accept.

My DH’s father is very outspoken and his family always put up with it. Half of what he says is just to be hurtful and some of it is really outrageous. Some of it is ignorant and incorrect. There is never an edit button. He does it to his own kids worse than he does it to anyone else but they never ever call him out on it. The in laws of his children often do because they are not used to the consipiracy of silence around his tyrannical ‘truth telling’ and it causes ructions.

But you can’t marry your dad, have his children and go and live with him, so you better give your DH some loyalty and sympathy. You don’t have to lie - you can be gentle about saying that thing about him does annoy you but your dad was out of order for confronting him about it.

My DH’s dad used to nag his sister’s boyfriend about not asking her to marry him and he has dumped her now - he is an interfering fool. He is not your husband, and he needs to butt out a bit.

While your Dad sounds a little annoying and should probably have left you to deal with your own battles, it's your DH's behaviour which is most concerning. I'm afraid he doesn't sound like a nice person at all. Are you sure you want to be with him?

he shouldnt tell your dh off in hisown house

however its a disagreement and your dh shouldnt make u take sides

my dh doesnt speak with my df but he doesnt interfere in my relationship with him or tell me to take sides

@lirpaloof you are stuck in the middle because your husband has put you in the middle.

So not only is he demanding to control what your dad thinks, he wants to control what you think too?

"there is no right or wrong." There is right or wrong in terms of opinions, some opinions are wrong, but we all have a right to hold those options. Your dh brought the subject up, no doubt to change your dad's opinion. When he failed he got nasty. I would have lost a big degree of respect if my husband had ever spoken to my dad like that, especially if he himself had brought up the topic of conversion, irrespective of where that conversation took place.

"It caused a row between us and I reluctantly ended up telling DH that I agreed with him just to keep the peace. I don't see my dad that often so it just seemed easier." Your husband sounds like a nasty bully. Your choice, keep quiet and keep the status quo or go and see a counselor and help your dh to see he doesn't get to control everyone else.

"It's brought up the whole argument again and DH is saying that he would be justified in thinking I'm siding with my dad if I see him and that I'm an unsupportive wife. He's not actually said that's what he thinks, just that he would have grounds to, implying that I should be grateful he doesn't think that way."

Controlling man isn't he.

He should be grateful this has not split you up. It's just about your dad, he is a bully and he wants to control you. He left your dad shaken, (with fear?), has he ever done that to you?

"AIBU to try to remain neutral and continue seeing my dad? Is DH BU in forcing me to take sides?"

Yes YABU to try and remain neutral, tell your dh what you really think.
Yes your DH is BU to try and stop you seeing your dad, forcing you to take his side and trying to change your dad's opinion and your opinion.

Are things otherwise good between you and dh or does this controlling behaviour leak into your relationship too?

Your dad was trying to look out for his little girl. My dad would argue that black is white if he thought it was affecting me.

Your dh sounds like a bit of a dick if he can’t see that.

So basically your dad, but particularly your dh, are putting their OPINIONS and desire to be ALWAYS RIGHT above your feelings or needs. They can both 'do one' in my opinion. Selfish and arrogant.

PS your dad may well be annoying, mine could certainly be! But the issue is not your dad having an opinion, or even daring to share it (when asked), it is your dh wanting to control everything and using some sort of veiled accusation to do it.

The example I gave was just an example as I didn't want to give specifics. However, if it helps, the argument was that our house needs quite a lot of work doing to it eg new kitchen and bathroom but DH has dragging his heels for 4 years. I am happy to help with any work that needs doing but DH is skilled and experienced in that area. At the time, DH was regularly helping out a friend fix things on their house. My dad's view is that DH should be improving our house first. I have got used to living in a house where everything is falling to bits but obviously my dad sees it with fresh eyes every time he visits.

Ah, he bullies you, tries to separate you from your family and prioritises his friends' home over your own.

This is the point where I'd be making a pros and cons list I think.

Tell your Dh to grow up, people are allowed to have difference of opinions so there’s no right or wrong answer, YOU need to tell your Dh that the disagreement he has with your father is for him and your father to both sort out as adults and does not warrant you to act as a peace negotiator.

Obviously your DH shouldn't stop you seeing your Dad, but if your DF wants to be welcome back in the house, he needs to apologise. Even if he doesn't mean it. I would have taken offence at my FIL trying to tell me how to spend my free time, and what jobs I should be doing in my house.

Your DH is an absolute knob.

I guess that your Dad finds it hard to see the gradual grinding you down until you take shite treatment for an easy life with this bully.

Glad no kids are planned!

I get that your DH is helping a friend - that's good. But to outside eyes, your DH is prioritising someone over your own welfare - your DF sees his little girl being made to live in less than ideal surroundings which could easily be remedied but that isn't happening. I get why your DF is annoyed. Are you so used to the house that you just don't see the deterioration that happens in 4 years from an already less than great start?

Your DF shouldn't have kicked off. Your DH shouldn't have kicked off. But your DH in being massively U in expecting you to chose sides and to suggest you go NC. That is way too controlling and unpleasant. Kids in a playground get told that they can't tell their bestie who to be friends with - your DH certainly can't tell you not to speak to your family.

Your DH sounds awful. So he brought up the subject and then gets angry that your Dad has an opinion on it? If you don't agree that your DH was right and don't want him helping out friends at your expense then you shouldn't have to pretend that you do agree with him just to keep the peace. I bet your Dad is very worried about you.

I have nor read the whole thread.

What is your contribution to the situation.

Has dad reacted to statements you have made.

He has no right to tell your dad he isn't welcome in your house

Of course he does!

If I had such irrevocable differences with my DP's father I'd make a point of not being in when he came, or would go on a mini-break or similar whilst he was visiting.

I certainly wouldn't want to be in the house with someone I didn't get on with & I'm pretty sure the OP wouldn't want to sit there with them both glowering at each other....

Now you’ve clarified I think your Dad is right. And so does your husband which is why he’s so pissed off.

Although, it's quite refreshing to have the situation being dealt with in the open, if it was a DW & a MIL it'd be a nest of passive aggressive remarks & "subtle" undermining.....

Sounds like my DH/DF (yes I married my dad too) they have very differing opinions, both straight talkers, jobs that are in complete conflict with each other and ive heard heated conversations but they have both been adult enough to move on to a different topic and tend to avoid anything that might make them argue. I love them both dearly and generally dont take sides but they both tend to get jokey if it gets heated. Neither are physical with it and I think they like each other! You think they are both wrong. They both think their opinions are right but think they handled the situation wrong. Perhaps just suggest a meal out somewhere neutral and suggest neither talk about what caused the argument. Your DH should not be telling you to support him unconditionally - you are trying to remain neutral which I agree with

Queeniebed - DH would disagree that he is telling me to support him unconditionally, he thinks he's telling me to support him when he's right...because he is convinced he is and he couldn't understand why I didn't see it.

1. You should be - and feel - able to express your own views honestly to your DH. If you feel you can't, and have to 'be seen' to agree with him to keep the peace, to subsume your wants beneath his (rather than expressing views, talking things through and reaching an agreed position, probably a compromise) there's something wrong in your marriage.

He needs to know that you tolerating something is not the same as you agreeing with him about it. He also needs to know - and care - when you're unhappy about something and factor this into his thinking.

2. Your DH must recognise that your relationship with your dad is important to you. It needn't necessarily have anything to do with him. But, you having your dad to stay in your home would be a normal thing to do and unless your dad is actively antagonising your DH in your home, or unable to be pleasant while they're together, I think you should insist he is welcome to stay with you.

3. It is interesting that it was your DH who started the argument. My view would be a bit different had it been the other way around.

I can think of many 'role reversal' examples of this on here, where it's the DH unable to stand up to, or see any wrong in a MIL, who the DIL cannot abide. Views are usually that she shouldn't have to, especially in her own home, that she has a 'DH problem not a MIL problem' and should reduce contact with the MIL.

BUT this is not analogous. You are not the problem - you're perfectly aware and critical of your dad's blunt behaviour and prepared to say he was rude and unkind of him to respond like that. You cannot control his thoughts. If your DH is silly enough to ask for those thoughts (as no unhappy DIL did ever) he knows he's going to hear them.

So, it sounds a bit as though your DH was setting your Dad up, so he could shun him. Because, presumably, your DH cannot abide criticism - or even the feeling of silent disappointment on your behalf, from your dad - even when he's blatantly being selfish and wrong.

That dynamic, that care for you and your wellbeing is to be crushed, as being against your DH's interests, is really worrying and unhealthy.

How does having a run-down house impact on your personality? your ability to socialise with friends at home?
I only ask because I had an ex who sounds rather like your DH. Although I was happy to help with the work that needed done, he wanted to be in control because he was 'better at building/decorating/tiling/everything' . What that actually meant was that nothing happened.
The knock-on effect on my confidence, peace of mind and friendships was insidious. I stopped inviting people over because I was embarrassed. I found the messy/unfinished surroundings stressful so my home became a place of stress rather than refuge and relaxation. It can be a subtle but effective way to isolate someone.
Eventually I started decorating myself. I bought paint, furniture, etc. I found a tiler and told my ex I was booking them to finish the bathrooms unless he had it completed by x date.
I also started to see that my ex's failure to work with me to create a home showed how little respect he had for me. I ended the relationship.
An unfinished house can signify a lot about the state of a relationship and I imagine your DF knows that too.

So your father is just looking out fo rhis daughter - ie; wanting her to live in a house thats not half-done with bits here and there that needs doing? And your husband has given you an ultimatum of which 'side' to choose? Your husband is an arsehole. And rude. So your dad now has to live in a hotel and maybe he wont be able to see you because it would look like your choosing dad's side if you saw him? Your husband is an arsehole. And a bully.

I'm on your Dad's side here. Your DH is awful.

Sounds like your DH is a dick go home and live with DF who was only sticking up for you in the first place.