To find my gentle parenting friends infuriating?

[Littlemissmuff]

NC as this may be outing.

I have 3 friends, all have toddlers between 2 and 3 years old.
Our children play together frequently and their parenting style is driving me mad.
One of them literally never says no to her son, he can hit our childre or destroy something but instead she insists on talking nicely to him even though he is definitely not listening.
Another one has a huge moan several times a day about how tired she is and she fed up of her toddler getting her up all night to breastfeed; however won't do anything about it and won't take any suggestions such as water or night weaning and states that it is cruel and our roles as mothers are to cuddle our children all night if we have to if that's what they demand even at age 3.
I don't care how they parent their child but I do when it's affecting my son, he is forever getting pushed about by these kids now and he is constantly seeing them doing really dangerous behaviour and "risk taking" without any parent intervention which then makes me look awful to him if i tell him no if he tries to copy them climbing on to the TV stand or windowsill.
I don't know what research shows, but my god these children are so much more naughty than any other children I know.
Aibu to end our playdates even though it might end our friendship?

I knew someone like this, her 7 year old daughter slapped a 10 month old baby across the face! The child’s mother didn’t turn a hair! That was an eye opener.

I'd have slapped the bitch mother in the face.

I found such wet blanket PFB parenting irritating aswell. I stopped socialising with such women and made new friends. Easy. Don't fret.You don't need to put up with this namby pamby OTT child-centred nonsense.

I’d continue to reprimand re hitting and say to the parents society has rules which will impact your child - one is that you don’t hit other people. The message I’m giving to my child is that he has a right to NOT be hit which is very important. And maybe they will cancel play dates which might be for the best. Re the whingeing I’m not sure - cheerfully say oh are you still doing that? different strokes for different folks hey. and ignore?

If you find your friend's problems boring then... They're not really your friend, are they? Would you feel the same way about your friend if she had caring responsibilities for a sick parent and didn't just put them in a home because you told her to? If your OH has a shitty few months at work and comes home in need of a vent, do you just tell him to just find a new job and not "whine" to you?

Sometimes we choose to do things even though they're hard because we believe they have value. Sometimes we struggle and need to vent to our supposed friends. And yes sometimes we lose perspective and get a bit monomaniacal when we're in the thick of it. You could ask her to dial it back a bit for sure (please don't message me in the small hours, I need all the sleep I can get too!") - but the nasty way you speak about her shows you have no sympathy for her, because you think she's doing it all wrong. That's not how a friend feels.

We knew someone who did gentle parenting. I had to grab the kid her one time as her mother struggled to find the words to express "Don't run into the road!!!!" in an empathetic way.
I roared 'No!' and grabbed the kid before she ran in front of a car.

She now has four kids and no longer does gentle parenting.

It's not gentle parenting... it's shit permissive parenting...

I’ve come across a few in my time and I do find it all rather odd. None of the other kids wanted anything to do with the GP children due to their violence (which of course was never punished). I felt sorry for the kids.
I also worry about the future of GP kids, there will be so many times when they won’t get they want and will be told “no”. Must be so confusing in school too with such a different approach to life.

Hang on I've noticed it's the same two people saying the same stuff on repeat. Makes sense. No longer bothered.

I have a friend who gentle parents, we don't live close anymore so I don't have to put up with her 'spirited' kid. I do however have to see her numerous Facebook posts about how gentle parenting is the only way to parent if you don't want to damage your child etc. I find all a little to self congratulatory and judgemental. No idea if it works or not but I can't get past the judgement of parents who don't do it like she does.

Ahhhhh. So those disagreeing with you aren't worth listening to? Interesting.

Nope it's just the same message like 3 times is pretty lame.

Feeding her baby and meeting its needs isn't the same as you having no self control and being overweight.

The child is three, not a baby. By the sounds of it what the child needs is a mother who puts boundaries in place and probably a mother who encourages a new approach to the breastfeeding so that both can get a night's sleep.

I don't understand your last two comments, OP, but I do remember a friend like that when my dd was only small. She became an ex-friend. She never said anything to her dd when she hit other children or threw stones at them, but was quick enough to stop them doing anything she considered dangerous.

They dont understand no but they do understand the tone. Which just like a puppy, can control a baby exactly when you need to. They're probably doing more harm long term

I knew someone whose child was playing with a sharp knife. When a friend pitched in with 'what if he wants to be a chef? ' He was 3!!!

If you dont say no then how do expect your kids to fend of bullies or unwanted sexual advances?
No is a good word but sometbing that women especially are bad at saying.
No means firm boundaries. Firm boundaries-happy kids.

For the vast majority, 'gentle parenting' like you so describe, produces entitled little twits who think the world owes them something. Baby wearing and breast feeding are totally separate to this, but a total lack of discipline is as abusive as overly staunch rules.

This reminds me of Alexander (not his real name).

Alexander was a lovely boy, Alexander was extremely inelligent, Alexander was just misunderstood.....

He was the single most unpopular child a playgroup because his mother was uttery ineffectual and he ran riot. All you could hear was "Alexander dont do that darling" "Alexander, shall we do the craft instead of stamping on the dollies?" "Alexander, Alexander......."

I did feel sorry for the kid because he desperately wanted to play with the other kids but he didnt know how to because no one had ever taught him. All he knew was to demand what he wanted in order to get it, and was so confused when it didnt happen at playgroup and would get very upset and angry. So of course he ended up on his own. He had a little brother who suffered as much as the other kids did. If anyone "told him off" ie said "Please dont snatch and hit Alexander, its not nice" then she would be horrified and spend ages pacifying his tears and rage.

In the end the leader had to step in and ask her to not bring him again and suggested that she attend a parenting group at the local Sure Start centre, as his behaviour was so bad. I don know if she went, I suspect she may have done as she seemed well meaning but utterly clueless and lacking any sort of control. I certainly hope she did for her sons sakes. I saw them out shopping once and he was "that" child in the supermarket, and she just kept saying "Oh that isnt nice Alexander" when he was emptying shelves and chucking stuff around

There is a child in my family that was brought up by a mother who believed in gentle parenting. Now she is in her teens and has problems making and keeping friends as she doesn't know how to relate to people and has poor manners. She's a sweet girl underneath it all and she is starting to realize that she is lacking the skills that the other kids have. I think her mother did her a huge disfavour with the "gentle" methods. It was about making life easier rather than what was best for her.

These examples are lax permissive parenting, not gentle parenting. These people are using the label of "gentle" to excuse their poor parenting.

@Littlemissmuff could you try promoting the correct behaviour rather than 'telling them no/telling them off' as your friends put it?

So for example, if the kids are hitting could you step in and say " are you being kind?"

If they pick up/throw something etc "be careful you don't break it" and so on

It's not gentle parenting... it's shit permissive parenting...
This!!
Someone I know had a lively child read total PITA who has never had any boundaries because mum doesn't believe in stifling her babies. Child got to school and Mum was still posting crap about school on facebook, sharibg images from positive parenting pages about how discipline and rules cause damaged children. Child kept getting ibto trouble at school. More updates on facebook about why education is failing her child and teachers need yo get their head out tjeir arses and start engaging him read - let him do what he likes and follow his interests when he likes. In the end she decided to home educate abd now considers herself in the same group as parents of SEND children who have actually had a battle. It ie infuriating.

It's like she's claimed gentle parenting as a reason for permissive parenting with no boundaries and then when her child gets i to trouble at school she's jumping on the coat tails of SEND parents bitching about how school was damaging her children and hindering their development.

YANBU and I suspect many parents change their friends (and kids friends) as the differences in parenting style become more apparent as the babies turn into toddlers. We did. There'll be other people out their on the same wavelength as you, and you won't have to put up with this idiotic carry on any longer. They are creating monsters, if they did but know it.

When I used to consider myself a "gentle parent" there were still always three hard boundaries - respect for people, respect for property, and respect for resources.

So nonsense like breaking a teapot to find out the consequences wouldn't be a thing, because the teapot is someone's property, could be dangerous when broken, and even if it was unwanted, it could still be used by someone else so it is a waste to break it.

I do agree sadly sometimes it can be an extremely well meaning thing which backfires. My mum was probably a bit gentle parenty because she had a very overbearing childhood and she didn't want that for us. Luckily DSis and I are fairly naturally empathetic and don't tend to push things too far anyway BUT I feel as a result of never ever being pushed out of our comfort zones we have both struggled - I find it really difficult to enforce boundaries with others (and have struggled with DS which is probably why gentle parenting appealed to me as it let me off the hook!) and DSis struggles to get out and do things, make friends, get a job, move out of home etc. She really finds decisions hard and lacks self confidence. I've been lucky to have always been social enough that I've ended up having experiences which have pushed me, but been the social pushover instead!

I agree that boundaries are really important in order to model assertiveness to our children as they learn how to enforce their own boundaries from being on the receiving end.

I don't consider myself a "gentle parent" any more because at some point it all becomes nonsense and you drop the labels because you're just parenting - like everyone else and muddling through.

I do believe it's possible to manage 100% of parenting issues without negativity or punishment - in theory - in reality, it's an extremely rare parent who actually has the energy. And it really doesn't matter if you use a shortcut once in a while. Your children won't be damaged by it and they will still learn what you intend especially if you back up the message in other ways.