To find my gentle parenting friends infuriating?

[Littlemissmuff]

NC as this may be outing.

I have 3 friends, all have toddlers between 2 and 3 years old.
Our children play together frequently and their parenting style is driving me mad.
One of them literally never says no to her son, he can hit our childre or destroy something but instead she insists on talking nicely to him even though he is definitely not listening.
Another one has a huge moan several times a day about how tired she is and she fed up of her toddler getting her up all night to breastfeed; however won't do anything about it and won't take any suggestions such as water or night weaning and states that it is cruel and our roles as mothers are to cuddle our children all night if we have to if that's what they demand even at age 3.
I don't care how they parent their child but I do when it's affecting my son, he is forever getting pushed about by these kids now and he is constantly seeing them doing really dangerous behaviour and "risk taking" without any parent intervention which then makes me look awful to him if i tell him no if he tries to copy them climbing on to the TV stand or windowsill.
I don't know what research shows, but my god these children are so much more naughty than any other children I know.
Aibu to end our playdates even though it might end our friendship?

[CatsAndCairngorms]

Gentle parenting isn't about not having any limits, it's about having empathetic limits.
Some toddlers do go through a hitting stage; the Mum needs to be right on top of it and either blocking the hits or taking the child home.

The BF is none of your business and if you were a true friend you would empathise rather than bitch online about her.

IME the gently parented kids tend to be better behaved than the 'traditionally' parented kids because their desire to behave is an internal thing rather than a response to shouting, naughty steps etc.

Maybe your friends are doing it wrong (and it does sound a bit like that) but either way YABU; if they annoy you that much then they're not really your friends so don't see them any more.

[Bellamuerte]

Drives me nuts!

My nephew (1.5yo) won't nap anywhere except SIL's lap, so she is basically immobilised for a couple of hours each afternoon. She refuses to make him lie down by himself because "aww he wants his mummy" - even on Christmas Day she had her dinner on a plate on the arm of the sofa while the kid napped on her lap. I don't see why it's cruel to lay him on the sofa with a blanket and get on with her life while he sleeps?

I've stopped my friend bringing her child to my house because he screams if anyone tries to take his shoes off and I don't allow shoes indoors. She lets him climb on my sofa with his shoes on because he doesn't like to take them off. I don't think it's unreasonable to make him remove them? And if I say "don't do that it's naughty" she says "he isn't naughty he's just cheeky". No, hitting my dog is not "cheeky"!

[NataliaOsipova]

If you're prepared for the friendship to cool off, then I'd stop the play dates. Doesn't sound much fun for you or your child - hopefully you can find some like minded friends.

[CatsAndCairngorms]

Sorry, I misread your actual question No of course YANBU to end your play dates. Organise play dates with whomever you want and if it's not working then stop them.

[UpstartCrow]

Yanbu, do they let their kids run into the road? Of course they dont. Children need to learn boundaries, safety, and cooperative social behaviour. You might need to rethink exposing your child to their lack of parenting.

[RatherBeRiding]

In your own home I would definitely advocate the "my house my rules" approach. If your friends take offence then suggest you can only meet them on neutral ground in future because you don't want your things damaged.

Ultimately you may have to bring the play dates to an end if the other children continue to push/hurt your child - but be honest with your friends.

As for the moaning about being up all night BFing, just shrug and smile and say something like "it comes with the territory if you make those choices".

[TheLegendOfBeans]

High five to @thevanguardsix for “fishwife”

[Clandestino]

I get where you are coming from because the gentle parenting, AKA parenting through ignorance is m pet peeve too. The constant gentle explaining or blatant ignorance of the child's bad manners, combined with the posts about how someone's "little gorgeous rascal" or "little minx" did something delightfully naughty are seriously getting to me, just like children running lose in restaurants and don't the waiters dare telling them off.
I remember the fury I brought on my head once when I recommended an acquaintance of mine to stop BFing her 3, almost 4 year old child as she complained that she was completely exhausted and her bloods were low on just about everything that makes human body survive in working order. She didn't want to stop BFing, only have a moan and get some emotional support because surely, fuck the body and what does a 3y old need more, a healthy and active mother who can nourish her social development or an exhausted BFing warrior who believes that at that age the only way she can maintain the bond between her and her child is through offering her a bit of a liquid from her exhausted tits.
This, to me, is the other extreme of the Victorian "children should be seen and not heard" and "cane is the best educational tool" way of bringing up children, not an improvement.

[Chaosofcalm]

Genuinely puzzled - what happens when they go to school and get told no? Do the parents complain to the teachers? I am teacher and answer is yes.

[bumbleymummy]

I had a friend who didn’t say ‘no’. I still said no to her dd when she was hitting/pushing/trying to break toys etc. My house, my rules. I wasn’t going to stand and watch while her dd hurt my children or broke their things.

[Tringley]

Gentle parenting doesn't mean not saying no. That's BS, so either you are exaggerating or they are not gentle parenting but getting it wrong and 'un-parenting.' I'm 100% a gentle parent but I have extremely firm boundaries and my son understands that I have expectations of him that can vary by setting. Ie, I don't expect him to sit at the table and eat every meal at home but when we are in a restaurant we think about how we impact on other diners so we sit at the table and talk to each other at a normal volume. And he knows damn well that hitting is not ever ok. If he ever hit another child, I'd pull him aside and talk to him about how he had made the other child feel and ask him to figure out how to rectify it.

Buuut, equally I'm not going to make him adapt entirely to fit in with someone else's rules. If we are in a park where he's normally allowed to climb to the top of a climbing frame, ride his bike around the perimeter, climb steep steps, etc. But another child isn't allowed do those things, I'm not going to curtail him from doing things he is used to because they are against another family's rules.

[Tinty]

PP who said what happens when these children get to school and have never been told no before or heard a raised voice from their parents/carers. One of my best friends moved away and I went to stay with her for a week she never said no or told her DS off or raised her voice to him.

It was not a fun week her DS (he was only 2), mine was 2 and 5 mths, spent the whole week snatching toys, hitting and pushing and getting indulgent smiles from his mum, my DS had been brought up to share, not hit or push etc, so was very well behaved. My DS had obviously done these things occasionally but was always told to share and play nicely etc.

When her DS went to school she told me he had a terrible time because he would cry all the time when he was told off by the teachers and cry all the time when the teachers raised their voices. She said to me that she would not be so soft with her next child because it had made life very difficult for him.

[CatsAndCairngorms]

Bellamuerte I'm with you on the shoes but what on earth is the problem with your nephew napping on your SIL if she's happy with it?!

[bumbleymummy]

“She didn't want to stop BFing, only have a moan and get some emotional support ”

heaven for it you should want to have a moan to your friends every now and then without them hoisting up their judgy pants.

[bumbleymummy]

Forbid*

[Jenala]

I agree with a pp. A lot of "gentle" parenting is actually lazy, submissive parenting.

I try and parent gently but boundaries are still really important and it definitely does not mean leaving them to crack on behaving how they want. I just don't really use punitive methods like the naughty step etc (no criticism of others who do. Just not for me). Clear boundaries and logical consequences are totally necessary and you're doing your kid a disservice if you don't put these in place. I just try and be authoritative rather than authoritarian.

Sounds like your friends practice very permissive parenting more than gentle which in my opibion is no more balanced than the overly strict parent! Children need to know where they stand and what is expected of them. Yanbu.

[MammaTJ]

My not yet two year old DGD understands no, she understands it so well, she uses it! I am damn sure three year olds understand it, or they would if they ever heard it! It will not harm a child to be told they cannot hit another!

I would put your child first, withdraw from these 'friends' who allow their children to hit yours.

[celebrate30]

I know one ridiculous "gentle parenter", her kids are nightmares but she insists on the softly soflty approach, baby wearing & breastfeeding past 5 etc... Social media full of posts about how you should carry your child, co sleeping, breastfed children cleverer etc... Funnily dh & I & other mums in the school have seen her laying into her husband fiercely in front of the kids, surely this totally contradicts her gentle parenting style! Also said woman has no problem telling everyone else's kids off. You are totally not being unreasonable!!!!

[Rumpledfaceskin]

It’s annoying. I have friends that winge constantly about sleep but do nothing whatsoever to change their situation. Once in a while, no one minds, but constantly moaning so that we barely talk about anything else? I feel like saying ‘accept what you can’t change or change what you can’t accept and shut up about it’.

[thehairyhog]

They think a 2-3 year old doesn’t understand no?

Allowing your child to hit without intervening is permissive and a lack of boundaries can be as damaging as traditionally harsh parenting. Actually toddlers DON’T need to hear no every time they hit, generally they know they’re not meant to do it, it’s just that they lack impulse control. They need help to stop, ideally from their parent. Blocking, and removal from the situation if it’s repeated hitting - they’re obviously overwhelmed.

I’d have no hesitation staying close and blocking another child’s hits and if it was continuous I’d either suggest they took their child away or I’d leave. Don’t let your child repeatedly be hit without intervening (not saying you do!) Awful for both children!

I hope people don’t assume this is what respectful parenting is about, because this isn’t it. Firm, kind boundaries are so important.

[HouseworkIsASin10]

So I've said "no we don't hit" And been told by ALL three why I must not say no because they are doing this gentle parenting and even my own child will end up damaged because they don't understand no at this age anyway..

You need new friends.

[Whitecurrants]

I would certainly stop them from hurting my child or overstepping boundaries in my house, beyond that it’s not really my business if my friends want to bring up gently parented children (or badly behaved brats as I might well call them in unguarded moments). If I don’t like what my child is doing I’ll tell her not to do it irrespective of what the others are being allowed to do.

[CatsAndCairngorms]

Tringley completely agree.

[IcingSausage]

YANBU.

I have a friend who does gentle parenting. Totally her choice, entirely up to her. But I’ve been avoiding play dates ever since her 3 year old DS spat at me.

[KipperBalloon]

Sounds like your friends are confusing "gentle parenting" and "not parenting"...

I hate parenting labels anyway, but if I had to choose I would say that I err on the gentle side, but my DS gets told "no we don't do xyz because xyz" when necessary and if he's doing something he shouldn't and he continues to do so then he gets stopped and moved away. I wouldn't let him do anything of the things you've described!

Definitely agree with PP that the BF side of things is none of your business.